The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

[Grummgug]

Research has shown that the basic indicator of success in life is self-discipline. You can be born rich, poor, black, white, intelligent, or dumb as a box of rocks. If you have self-discipline, none of it matters, and you will succeed.

If you lack self-discipline and instead are wild and only interested in "experiencing life" as it were, you will fail at life regardless of what situation you were born into.

Here is a TED talk on the importance of self-discipline. Success can be EXTREMELY reliably predicted at age FOUR, believe it or not.
http://www.ted.com/talks/joachim_de_...allow_yet.html

[Coombs]

im wondering the same thing as masark. my friends and i did very well in college and none of us were able to go for free. we had scholarships, but definitely not enough to make it free.

I agree that it is rare to get a full ride, but student loans and scholarships together make any tuition manageable. People often complain about the idea of being in debt their entire lives but it's a piss-poor argument. They are just lazy pieces of shit who enjoy mooching from home and getting free handouts while working at dead end jobs. If on the other hand they just had some loans they would be able to pay it off with a legitimate career easily. This of course requires that they obtain a degree that isn't worthless. Also, many people can succeed without college but the people who make the "I can't afford college, you are keeping me down" argument are often just trash who expect a free fucking handout.

[Netherspark]

Without money people often won't be able to go to decent schools, attend college or university. Poor quality of food and home can lead to a lack of well-being which can lead to depression and can kill ambition. It's no secret that many people from poor backgrounds grow up poor themselves - that's not a coincidence.

[Deleted]

State rather you believe this or not and why.

Personally, I do believe it. A person can have a brilliant mind or superior athletic prowess but still be held back their entire lives because they lack money.

The NBA likes to have a word with you.

[SirPiken]

I agree that it is rare to get a full ride

Depends on your definition of rare. In my graduation class of roughly 425, id venture i guess that at least 35 or more got a full ride. Sure some of those full rides were to the local college and not something out of state or ivy league. In my own family out of 20 or so grandkids, at least 5 were offered a full ride somewhere.

[Coombs]

Without money people often won't be able to go to decent schools, attend college or university. Poor quality of food and home can lead to a lack of well-being which can lead to depression and can kill ambition. It's no secret that many people from poor backgrounds grow up poor themselves - that's not a coincidence.

Trash begets trash. It takes a driven person to rise above where they started, especially if they have been strongly indoctrinated into the idea that family is everything. So many families "support" their children, but that support causes them to simply be trapped in a repeating cycle of poor decisions.

[Prokne]

Yes even in the US smarty pants people can get a "free ride" to university. Get decent grades and a good score on your sat/act and you're all set. Just don't expect it to be to Harvard unless you're a minority.

The only scholarship I know of for really smart people is the National Merit Scholarship. You have to pretty much have perfect grades, really high test scores, and some kind of service related or leadership extra-curricular activities to get it. However if you are really poor, there are lots of scholarships and grants you cant get for low income people. But if you have some money, you better be a genius or you arent getting a full ride scholarship, or much of any scholarships, for academics.

[Mormolyce]

It's "the poor get... children"

[Coombs]

Depends on your definition of rare. In my graduation class of roughly 425, id venture i guess that at least 35 or more got a full ride. Sure some of those full rides were to the local college and not something out of state or ivy league. In my own family out of 20 or so grandkids, at least 5 were offered a full ride somewhere.

When I think of full ride I include cost of living as well as tuition, and only some of cost of living will be covered in most scholarships. Not allowing for out of state schools also hurts certain degree aspirations.

[Orcbert]

State rather you believe this or not and why.

Personally, I do believe it. A person can have a brilliant mind or superior athletic prowess but still be held back their entire lives because they lack money.

Lebron James and Herman Cain say 'Hi'.

I think it's tougher, no question about that. However this fatalistic mentality is a self fulfilling prophecy for many. If you apply yourself there is nothing you can't do. If your goal is to make money legally you can do it. It's never easy and certainly some kid with a huge bank account has a head start but that only goes so far.

[Deleted]

The problem is that money floats. The wealthy get more and more money out of the middle and lower class because those people get paid less then they bring to the company.
Let's say you work in a company that makes TVs, your "worth" to the company is 100k/year but you only get paid 50k, you're in the middle-class. TVs are products that typically sell to the middle class, so the money you bring in comes mainly from the middle-class, but half of it goes up to wealthy investors and CEOs, the money pool for the middle class gets smaller and smaller while the wealthy get more and more.

For financial success: I think the way financial success works is luck gets you the opportunities and you then have to use hard work to build up on those opportunities (usually, unless you're born to a wealthy fart and get everything handed to you).

[Applenazi]

State rather you believe this or not and why.

Personally, I do believe it. A person can have a brilliant mind or superior athletic prowess but still be held back their entire lives because they lack money.

You actually turn a profit going to community college in the US thanks to FASFA so I am unsure how anyone can have an excuse for not going to College, getting a two year degree, and going from there.

Also student loans don't use credit ratings to obtain, so they are basically free guaranteed money with insanely long windows in which to pay off. So since anyone can get a degree, and there are hundreds of growth fields in the US, how can anyone with the mind not excel? You know, besides being a lazy worthless bitch.

[Grummgug]

Getting a full ride to a 4 year university is not the only path to success.

I know immigrants to America who started up their own landscaping business and make six figures, without a degree at all. They simply have the self-discipline to go out and build their own company. I know people with a masters degree that did nothing with their lives, because they have no self-discipline.

[Masark]

They simply have the self-discipline to go out and build their own company.

And capital to start the business. And savings to live for ~2 years without significant income.

[Netherspark]

Why do people consider "financial success" so important anyway?

It's a bit of a shitty society that measures your entire self-worth by how much capital you aquire.

[Auloria]

Having grown up in poverty, and having escaped it to become a successful and upper middle class professional who is well respected in her field, I can say with absolute certainty that you have a horribly low chance of escaping poverty. I didn't get out because I worked hard, even though I did, or because I'm smart, even though I am, very very smart... I got out because of a very lucky break.

Schools like mine, that poor people attend, had poor ability to recognize my talents and no ability to provide for it. Poor families aren't likely to trust establishments that only bend them over and screw them, and won't do much to foster the skills their kids need to succeed in them. No one gets out unless someone from the "inside" gives them a boost.

[Kraenen]

Subscribing to this thread. This should be good.

I've bookmarked this thread and put it up on my big screen TV for the whole family to see.

[Stir]

Getting a full ride to a 4 year university is not the only path to success.

I know immigrants to America who started up their own landscaping business and make six figures, without a degree at all. They simply have the self-discipline to go out and build their own company. I know people with a masters degree that did nothing with their lives, because they have no self-discipline.

Please stop saying 'self-discipline.' It's either 'self control' or 'discipline.'

Second: Contacts is a huge part of success, believe it or not. It's easier to gain contacts as a minority person (though other social factors bar the way to success for minorities) which means that, while most people who are part of a minority are poor, most extravagant success stories also come from minorities.

Third: Exploitability. You have to find something that is in popular demand. And then you need to not be outcompeted. Now; the first one is universal, but the second one is not; people from a wealthy background have more money to invest, and are therefore more successful at competing. So the trick is to find a field in which the people with money aren't already invested.

Basically: Your american dream is misguided. Discipline increases your chance of being successful, yes. But it is no guarantee at all. And for every single example of someone who made it big, there are hundreds of examples of people who failed miserably. And with the economic system we have, this MUST be so. Only a small percentage of the population can be successful in business, because the LARGE part of the population must support the small part by.. Well; not being successful. By being factory workers, cleaners, janitors, dishwashers and more.

[Coombs]

Having grown up in poverty, and having escaped it to become a successful and upper middle class professional who is well respected in her field, I can say with absolute certainty that you have a horribly low chance of escaping poverty. I didn't get out because I worked hard, even though I did, or because I'm smart, even though I am, very very smart... I got out because of a very lucky break.

Schools like mine, that poor people attend, had poor ability to recognize my talents and no ability to provide for it. Poor families aren't likely to trust establishments that only bend them over and screw them, and won't do much to foster the skills their kids need to succeed in them. No one gets out unless someone from the "inside" gives them a boost.

Only because poverty does its best to keep others down with their anti-education culture. It just takes someone to cut the bad fruit from the tree, stop associating with the trash, and become something that they couldn't become without that separation. You don't need a stroke of luck to succeed, you just need ambition and good work ethic.

[Deleted]

Why do people consider "financial success" so important anyway?

It's a bit of a shitty society that measures your entire self-worth by how much capital you aquire.

Some people have dreams that require large sums of money ?