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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I think they know that Horridon was a massive mistake, it was imo was the worst tuned second boss in the history of WoW.

    We where stuck on it for 8 weeks.

    It has been nerfed 3 (4?) times already.

    Since we killed it we have killed a new boss every single week since (and this week we had a < 10% wipe on DA).
    Horridon was overtuned, but after the first nerf it was ok. Hard, but ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by Quilzar View Post
    I am pretty sure they are never going to do that again (they have said as much).
    They said the exact same thing about one class only legendaries. That was before Dragon Soul.

    Please don't think they do what they say.

    They say what you want to hear from them, nothing more.

  2. #42
    I thought blizz said they weren't going to set it up so normal and hardcore raiders would have to run LFR or flex.... when flex drops stuff that's better than the previous tier's heroic gear.... looks like they changed their minds and didn't say anything to anybody.

    Blizz being blizz I guess lol.

  3. #43
    Over 9000! Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    I'll stick with LFR, having the ability to queue whenever i want to just totally beats out any benefits from normal/flex/heroic for me :P

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    inb4 heroic raiders cry that their 543 loot is worse than 548 loot XD.

    srsly, can't wait for it.
    Congratz, you can get decent gear now with no effort once again lol.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    They've said chances are upgrades won't be around when 5.4 launches.
    So, what are we to spend VP on when 5.4 releases?

    I see myself playing the game a whole lot less, if VP suddenly becomes worthless.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Fanglord1 View Post
    If there's one crowd that doesn't really complain about gear it's HC raiders, they just go for the best out at the time. Gear QQ is normally from normal raiders and PVPers.
    Slight correction there. You don't complain about gear, unless some unworthy filthy casual is wearing something that looks similar. Then you light up the forums with how they "didn't earn it!" :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    I'll stick with LFR, having the ability to queue whenever i want to just totally beats out any benefits from normal/flex/heroic for me :P
    Well, for Flex raids, I would hope you would be enticed to do it because it's aimed at being easier than normal and is aimed at letting folks run with their friends without having to overly worry about raid comps and such. Guilds can now carry the players that can't quiet cut it in normal, but are fun people to play with.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-07-19 at 12:55 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I thought blizz said they weren't going to set it up so normal and hardcore raiders would have to run LFR or flex.... when flex drops stuff that's better than the previous tier's heroic gear.... looks like they changed their minds and didn't say anything to anybody.

    Blizz being blizz I guess lol.
    Well, I would go with blissful ignorance. 1,000 people saying... we won't get our raid all the trinkets/tier we need from normal by the time you unlock Flex... doesn't accomplish much. Really no delayed time table will work. We only saw 2 normal caster lei shen trinkets in the first 8-10 weeks of farming...

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by braayden View Post
    Yeah no way that will stick - the presumption is normally that LFR gear would be tuned around what an average player would need to start killing things in normal. It should be at most 522 so as not to just automatically make ToT irrelevant.
    So you want the Flex gear to be 522 and LFR to gear to be what? 510?`10 ilvl upgrade from last lfr?

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by braayden View Post
    Yeah no way that will stick - the presumption is normally that LFR gear would be tuned around what an average player would need to start killing things in normal. It should be at most 522 so as not to just automatically make ToT irrelevant.
    Hmmm, lets see here. LFR ToT gear is 502, normal HoF/ToES is 496... LFR gear will be around 528 for ToT(if they do the same 6 ilvls), flex is going to be higher than that. 540 seems about right if normal is dropping 553. ToT is going to stay relevant because it still drops legendary mats. Other than that previous tiers are supposed to lose their relevance. Current content is what's relevant. Currently they do this through LFR, and soon Flex. In the past it was heroic dungeons that dropped gear around the same ilvl as the previous tier. So I fully I expect this to "stick".

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Congratz, you can get decent gear now with no effort once again lol.
    I'm a heroic raider and my average item level is 547 (because Lei Shen refuses to drop his healing trinket >_>).

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    So, what are we to spend VP on when 5.4 releases?

    I see myself playing the game a whole lot less, if VP suddenly becomes worthless.
    There will be a valor dump. Blizz may be a lot of things, but one thing it's not is stupid enough to have literally nothing to spend your valor on (not counting old-tier valor gear).

    It will either be upgrades for a valor gear vendor. Possibly both, but I think just one is fairly likely. They just haven't decided yet. I think a lot of it depends on whether 5.5 is actually a (minor) content patch with the lore-follow up, valor upgrades turned back on, and possibly some other catch-up mechanism (maybe one or two heroic dungeons that drop 516 gear from all the bosses) or an extended pre-NewXpac patch (as in, just a lore follow up from the SoO fallout, then the actual pre-NewXpac patch being 6.0)

  12. #52
    If normal is 553, and flex is 540, then it stands to reason (to me), that LFR would be 13 ilvls lower, at 527, especially if there is no gear upgrading for the rest of the expansion. Then again, they may just come along and bring upgrades back out, for 5.5, so that guilds can finish up with experiencing all of the raid content.

  13. #53
    I think it's a little ridiculous, that flex raids will be getting gear almost equivilent to my BiS gear from this tier, just by going in and killing some bosses, tuned lower than normal modes

  14. #54
    Eh 540 Flex makes gearing up alts a lot easier.

  15. #55
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Slight correction there. You don't complain about gear, unless some unworthy filthy casual is wearing something that looks similar. Then you light up the forums with how they "didn't earn it!" :P
    The people saying this usually aren't even real hardcore, they're midcore wannabes who are better than average but nothing compared to the top guilds. I have never ever seen anyone in a legit top-end raiding guild (e.g. Paragon, Method, Blood Legion, etc.) come and spout the whole "Filthy casuals don't deserve gear" and "LFR should be removed/drop no loot", it's always some wannabe.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    The people saying this usually aren't even real hardcore, they're midcore wannabes who are better than average but nothing compared to the top guilds. I have never ever seen anyone in a legit top-end raiding guild (e.g. Paragon, Method, Blood Legion, etc.) come and spout the whole "Filthy casuals don't deserve gear" and "LFR should be removed/drop no loot", it's always some wannabe.
    Agreed. I've only ever seen true top-players highlight issues regarding class or boss mechanics. Even that wasn't so much complaining, as it was giving feedback to Blizz, for how to better tune the game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bennafflock View Post
    I think it's a little ridiculous, that flex raids will be getting gear almost equivilent to my BiS gear from this tier, just by going in and killing some bosses, tuned lower than normal modes
    When that time comes, you'll be decking out in 553 gear, looking towards 566, when they're still working on 540 gear. Why does that have to be ridiculous?

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    The people saying this usually aren't even real hardcore, they're midcore wannabes who are better than average but nothing compared to the top guilds. I have never ever seen anyone in a legit top-end raiding guild (e.g. Paragon, Method, Blood Legion, etc.) come and spout the whole "Filthy casuals don't deserve gear" and "LFR should be removed/drop no loot", it's always some wannabe.
    Someday when I have enough energy to care, I might set out to monitor the forums and take note of the progression of the complainers. I normally just roll my eyes and go on. Personally I don't think you'll see a top10-20 guild bashing LFR runners and such, because it might offend some of their fan base. But I have to imagine some of their members have opinions about it.

    I think it's a little ridiculous, that flex raids will be getting gear almost equivilent to my BiS gear from this tier, just by going in and killing some bosses, tuned lower than normal mode
    T14N dropped 496, T15 LFR dropped 502. What's the difference ? Someone getting gear slightly better than last tiers BIS really isn't that bad, they are still behind the new BIS. I'll admit I'm only looking at this from a very selfish perspective. I don't have to run last tier to gear up alts. If Flex stays close to what they are aiming for, people will have to at least try to kill the bosses, versus show up and AFK. Granted, the better guilds will probably still be able to carry 1-3 folks, but that's always been the case
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-07-19 at 05:03 PM.

  18. #58
    Blademaster stryfe1's Avatar
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    Taken from WoW Insider (http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/05/20/pa...h-ghostcrawler)

    Ghostcrawler states: "Our current plan for 5.4 (which I'm probably not supposed to talk about at all yet) -- is that there won't be valor vendors, and the upgraders will just stick around. There will still be some alternative ways for players to gear who don't want to go into raids, but we'll see. That's our plan for now, we might also have them go away again when 5.4 launches, then come back again."

    Obviously he is stating that it could be either, but current plans are for the valor upgrades to still be around in 5.4

    So there will be something worth spending valor on.

  19. #59
    Dreadlord
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    Flex raid is basicly the same as LFR. If you have any interest in the game avoid it.

  20. #60
    Heroic raiders won't seek themselves to Flex. Perhaps the first 2-3 weeks to get the OP trinkets, but not for any other reason. Item upgrades will probably not be available the first few weeks anyways, so 540 is worse than 541 (except the OP trinkets).

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