5.4 Best Race for a Rogue

[Deafyx]

So seeing as SoO is on the PTR at the moment, anyone have any theories on the best Rogue race for 5.4?

[Stryk]

I'm gonna guess Troll.

[Eazy]

So seeing as SoO is on the PTR at the moment, anyone have any theories on the best Rogue race for 5.4?

Well, I think it's still in PvE: Pandaren(food buff)(not sure about trolls, didn't check them) and in PvP: Human("free trinket").

[Deafyx]

I'm gonna guess Troll.

Well this Patch, Trolls was only best because Throne has Bosses that were "Beast" I believe. So I do not see Trolls being the best racial in SoO unless there is more Beast type bosses in SoO.

I can see Panda coming up top in SoO due to the extra 300 agility you get, I am not sure on the Orc racials yet.

[Verain]

Well, if sub actually is good, night elf. But night elf is always top race- you just have to view things in an unclouded fashion.

In PvP, the top race has been undead. This has been true for every patch since alpha, and I am 100% not fucking around when I say that. Check the top 10, check the distribution, it's always been undead.

In PvE, it is either trolls, orcs, or night elves, depending on what is going on in the rest of the game. It's possible that pandaren can compete if C or A is top, but I doubt it. 275-300 extra agility will have a hard time this deep in tier versus stacking cooldowns like those monsters get, and with find weakness being buffed if S is on top it's all about night elves, the correct race.

[theherecy]

In PvE, it is either trolls, orcs, or night elves, depending on what is going on in the rest of the game. It's possible that pandaren can compete if C or A is top, but I doubt it. 275-300 extra agility will have a hard time this deep in tier versus stacking cooldowns like those monsters get, and with find weakness being buffed if S is on top it's all about night elves, the correct race.

But it does compete for the top with trolls. Also trolls are far too bursty, it doesn't take into account when adds have to die (like in council HC) more often than not, panda is the right man for the task. Consistency is key is the lesson here.

[Verain]

I dispute your point- with two pieces.

First, when adds have to die, the racials don't normally decide that. For that matter, the goddamned ROGUES don't normally decide that. It's much more common to see a burn phase, and when that happens, the monster racials end up stacking in an amplified fashion with like several other multiplying cooldowns.

Second, it's very rare to see the top players on any of the "consistent small gains" guys. It's rare to see a world first have an issue with "kill all these things repeatedly" and if they do, they'll change out classes- the extra agi won't help them, and it won't matter for the rest of us. But they can and do stack up their damage for enrage phases, tendons, or whatever. And if you have a 25 raid, will you get more money out of having four pandas who punch adds when they spawn, or just setting up a berserking rotation? The second would likely be better damage, but you can tell it doesn't matter because they don't.

[theherecy]

They don't make or break it but if you're after more damage then panda is just better. And I'm not sure if I agree with you there, Horridon, Council, Tortos and megeara all have adds of some description which are a priority to kill. There is no burning just quick damage output consistently.

To the second argument, a normal team expects adds to be dps'd by everyone. If the guy wants to join a top team then I do wonder why he is even asking this question.

[Grayjoy]

It's kind of awesome to hear people say Night Elves are a top race, haha. I never thought about their potential synergy with sub.

[loki504]

Well, I think it's still in PvE: Pandaren(food buff)(not sure about trolls, didn't check them) and in PvP: Human("free trinket").

well the problem with panda food buff is that once you died you lose your racial. and thats not good:P

[theherecy]

well the problem with panda food buff is that once you died you lose your racial. and thats not good:P

If you're dying you should focus more on how to improve your game then trying to minmax racials.

[wrynil]

How greater numbers do we talk from say undead to troll? Estimated?

[Austilias]

For a long time now, I believe the best overall races for Rogues have been:

Alliance: Pandaren (Food buff), Gnome (Expertise buff) and Worgen (Crit buff/speed boost) in that order.
Horde: Pandaren (Food buff), Orc (Expertise buff & Blood Fury) and Troll/Goblin.

[Deafyx]

For a long time now, I believe the best overall races for Rogues have been:

Alliance: Pandaren (Food buff), Gnome (Expertise buff) and Worgen (Crit buff/speed boost) in that order.
Horde: Pandaren (Food buff), Orc (Expertise buff & Blood Fury) and Troll/Goblin.

I would have to agree with you on the Alliance side. In general, I would have to agree with your Horde version, EXCEPT for ToT due to the Damage Buff against Beasts, which ToT has about 5 of I believe.

As far as I can tell, I will be sticking with Panda unless an argument can be made for Orc/Trolls in 5.4. If Combat comes out to be the better spec (Man, I really hope it does not), then I would assume Troll would be the top spec for raiding rogues on Horde side.

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How greater numbers do we talk from say undead to troll? Estimated?

You can see the number difference by putting your Rogue into Shadowcraft, looking at the DPS as Undead, write it down, and then change your Race in the settings and run the sim again and compare.

http://shadowcraft.mmo-mumble.com/

[Eazy]

I would have to agree with you on the Alliance side. In general, I would have to agree with your Horde version, EXCEPT for ToT due to the Damage Buff against Beasts, which ToT has about 5 of I believe.

Name of thread is
5.4 Best Race for a Rogue

So I thought you're talking about 5.4, not 5.2?

[Deleted]

Panda and Troll both have their benefits, but Troll simply "works better" in the long run.

Pandaren does offer a greater EP value from food buff, but as mentioned before it is dependent on always having 300 food and not dying on an encounter. During early heroic progression this can be particularly difficult no matter what you say.

On the other hand, Troll offers a very slightly lower EP value with Berserking (increased energy regen and attack speed), but allows the player to use it on demand for windows of significantly high burst damage. This is usually the difference between a good dps rank and an exceptional dps rank (luck permitting) on most fights - due to RPPM, Meta gem & Blindside Procs (+soon to be legendary cloak procs) / Shadow Blade, DP & Stormlash hits landed during Bloodlust windows.

As mentioned before, Troll also provides Beast Slaying which is extremely effective on any beast encounters. Considering Thok the Bloodthristy is a beast in SoO, this is probably going to be enough to keep most top end raiders as troll for 5.4 HC progression at least. In my personal experience in both 5.3 HC progression and 5.4 PTR testing, Troll is the racial of choice over Pandaren.

Despite this, it is yet to be seen if Berserking will be de-valued by having the new CD reduction trinket. Not being able to line up SB / Vendetta with your racial so frequently could be a decisive factor... but that is a whole other can of worms i don't particularly want to open up in this thread.

[Verain]

The fact that troll still has a passive versus beasts while being more than competitive without it is shocking.

I still 100% believe that almost every fight rewards a cooldown over a small passive- often on the meter, but always in general. Forgetting the beast garbage entirely, you often have buff phases or debuff phases where your cooldown either is a real winner or your passive doesn't help much, respectively. Do you think you'd see a panda or a troll do more damage on Jin'rohk? Would you want berserking for a burn phase on Horridon or a 275 agility while you run from mob to mob? Tortos has a shell shocked phase even if your job is just to sit on him, and a cooldown spins if you are off target on Maegara but your 275 agi doesn't. Ji'Kun has a buff phase, and it's massive, so you can just go ahead and double your cooldown value on that (again, that's forgetting the beast thing entirely). Even if they weren't beasts, how many ToT fights would you actually prefer 275 to 300 agility on? Burn phases are ubiquitous as that's one of the ways Blizzard separates guilds with good dps from bad.

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For a long time now, I believe the best overall races for Rogues have been:

Alliance: Pandaren (Food buff), Gnome (Expertise buff) and Worgen (Crit buff/speed boost) in that order.
Horde: Pandaren (Food buff), Orc (Expertise buff & Blood Fury) and Troll/Goblin.

I definitely dispute your horde order.

Also remember that if the name of the game is sub, night elf is the winning race, though it has no dps gain for either of the other two specs. Shadowmeld provides a find weakness phase every 2 minutes.

[Deleted]

I still 100% believe that almost every fight rewards a cooldown over a small passive

Pretty much sums it up. Obviously Verain is referring to 5.2 and ToT a lot, but being able to maximize any kind of procs and damage buffs - on any fight - with good timing and planning is the reason why Troll is stronger imo.

[Carp The Fish]

From a PvE perspective, specifically for Siege of Orgrimmar,
Alliance: Pandaren >= Night Elf > Gnome > Human > Dwarf
Horde: Pandaren >= Orc = Troll > Goblin > Blood Elf = Undead

For the Alliance side, Pandaren and Night Elf are at that similar level depending on how much you play Subtlety next patch. Meanwhile, the rest if kind of self-explanatory.

For the Horde side, Pandaren and Troll are on a similar level (Pandaren edges out, generally), but Orc would beat Troll if you're playing Combat frequently.

[Madcaptn]

The only beast bosses right now I believe are Galakras & Thok. In 5.2 there were a lot more, Horridon, Tortos, Megaera, Ji-Kun, Iron Qon dogs so Troll was a good idea. I'll be Panda in 5.4.