60% of docs looking to retire due to obamacare

[TheGravemind]

Doctors makes ALOT more money inn USA, than european doctors do.

...Yet you see my doctor inn Denmark with a nice shirt, a fancy watch (Im not watch expert, but it looks crispy), and proboaly nowhere near poor.

I guess its true what they say...the more money you have, the more you need more money.

As someone about to go through medical school, doctors in Denmark do not have to pay ~$150k to $250k for their schooling either. Medical programs within North America (Canada and the USA) are also much more rigorous than the ones in Europe. There are often incidents of European doctors failing the board certification examinations to become certified within Canada/the USA as a result.

[zephid]

Tip: If a doctor is quitting because the money isn't good enough, you probably didn't want that person to be your doctor anyway.

This^

It's just greed talking, they'll still make more then enough money.

[Deleted]

Sensationalism oowww yeaaaa.

[DisposableHero]

I want my doctor to care about mé. Because a doctor who's a doctor to cares about people is probably better than someone who just makes a lot of money. Making a lot of money isn't evidence of being good at doctoring; it's evidence of being good at networking.

How much the doctor cares about you vs how much he cares about his paycheck is unrelated to his medical skill. Salary in scientific fields like medicine tends to have a lose correlation with expertise in the field and a strong correlation with experience. Expertise and experience are qualities I want in spades in my physicians so I'd be inclined to go with a doctor who is paid more. At very least it means if he doesn't care about me he has a stronger incentive to do a good job anyway.

Furthermore, how much they care about me has no impact on their ability to correctly diagnose a condition and recommend treatment. It has no correlation with their surgical skill if we are talking about surgery. 10 times out of 10 I will choose excellent medical treatment and terrible emotional treatment over the reverse.

[Creative]

My doctor told me he makes 500k / year even after college loans , personal debt like house and such ...and being sued multiple times ...doctors are not going anywhere . Btw doctor is long time best friend . Do not believe the hype .

[Stir]

Get real, being a Doctor is a job, a Job some of them may love, but a job none the less. Their skills are worth that money, and to be underpaid is unfair.

How would you like it is the Government cut the minimum wage by the same percentage as some of these doctors are losing out?

That doesn't matter for the argument.

Also, I think having a job purely for making money is... Well; silly. Sorry about saying this, but you and me... We're going to die. We're all going to die. Why waste your time watching numbers go up? I prefer to do what I love to do, instead, and, if that's not possible, to have a job that allows me to enjoy my time. And I don't care that much about being able to buy stuff.

Your first argument then falls on its face: Being a doctor is NOT just a job. It is (or should be) first and foremost a calling. A drive. To take care of others is to find fulfillment. Sure; in a capitalist system, this becomes hard as hospitals refuse to hire enough staff because of additional expenses, choosing instead to work their staff to the ground, which means that the staff will need to be paid lots of money to even consider working under such conditions. But that doesn't change the nature of the profession; it changes the environment in which it is practiced.

Your second argument equally falls on its face, because an equal percentage in loss of monetary wealth is NOT an equal percentage in loss of wealth. A loaf of bread costs fifty pence, whether you're a doctor or a burgerflipper. A doctor who loses 10% of their income loses more money than a burgerflipper who loses 10% income, but they don't lose by far as much wealth.
So again it doesn't match up.

Economy 1-0-1. Endus would probably be better able to explain it more intelligibly.

[The Iron Fist]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypip...-to-quintuple/

An article in Forbes magazine I found disturbing considering the way healthcare in the US is changing. I sure hope there are plenty of med students coming out of school and entering practice now or we are screwed.

Perhaps you should actually read the article OP, not just the title.

First off, this is an opinion piece - not a factually based article. All you do is need to read the title to understand that. "Thanks To Obamacare, A 20,000 Doctor Shortage Is Set To Quintuple"

Secondly, consider the source. In this case the writer Sally Pipes says this about herself,

"I am the president, CEO, and Taube Fellow in Health Care Studies at the Pacific Research Institute, a San Francisco-based think tank. I regularly address national and international audiences on healthcare issues. My written works have appeared in top newspapers throughout the country, and I've been interviewed on CNN, FOX News, MSNBC, and many other prominent outlets. As a native Canadian and naturalized American, I have a unique understanding of how government-run single-payer healthcare systems actually operate -- and why such ideas are wrong for America. I have published four books: in 2004 titled, Miracle Cure: How to Solve America’s Health Care Crisis and Why Canada Isn’t the Answer (2004), The Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen’s Guide (2008), and The Truth About Obamacare (2010), and my latest, The Pipes Plan: The Top Ten Ways to Dismantle and Replace Obamacare (Regnery 2012)."

This article WREAKS of opinion. Whether or not her opinion is right, the way in which Ms. Pipes presents this information is not from an unbiased stance, nor is it factually based. It is nothing more than an educated opinion.

TLDR; this article holds no merit nor is it factually based because it is an opinion piece.

[Akylios]

To be fair, becoming a doctor is one of the most difficult professions to become, so people shouldn't view them in such a poor light for wanting to be well compensated.

I can only assume this depends heavily on what the doctor specializes in. Some fields are bound to be much simpler than others. Educationally speaking, the major pain of becoming a doctor is the time commitment required. A medical doctor doesn't spend any more or less time per year on his studies than an engineer, but while an engineer will graduate with a masters degree after only 5 years, a medical doctor can spend as much (or more?) as 12 years before they've finished their initial studies.

I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to study to become a medical doctor for the money, because quite honestly the pay is quite terrible for the hours they need to work, the responsibility they have, and the incredible amount of time it takes for them to finish their education. If you want money, you study something business related. Become a financial engineer and you're all but guaranteed to earn 6 figures a year before you hit 30, even when you're bloody average and just working your typical 9-5 hours. If you're a genius of a financial engineer, you'll also become much richer than a genius of a medical doctor.

So yeah, if money is what you want, don't become a medical doctor.

[Aktavite]

Now look at that.

The survey was compiled in September 2012 by a Republican leaning "medical foundation".

What a surprise they question the implementation of the ACA.

[Akylios]

As someone about to go through medical school, doctors in Denmark do not have to pay ~$150k to $250k for their schooling either. Medical programs within North America (Canada and the USA) are also much more rigorous than the ones in Europe. There are often incidents of European doctors failing the board certification examinations to become certified within Canada/the USA as a result.

I don't know about Denmark, but it is very popular in Iceland for those studying to become medical doctors to go specifically to a certain school in a certain country to specialize in what they're interested in. So they do their base studies in Iceland, and then they go to the UK, Germany, Scandinavia or the US to specialize. For instance my best friend's oldest son is currently studying in America at John Hopkin's University, which to the best of my knowledge is regarded as more than adequate by American standards.

Is this not something that's popular amongst Danish medical students? You don't have to pay close to as much as the Americans by the way. Most American universities absolutely throw grants/discounts at non-American students, and I'm pretty sure the Danish government will give financial support as well.

[Pengalor]

Get real, being a Doctor is a job, a Job some of them may love, but a job none the less. Their skills are worth that money, and to be underpaid is unfair.

How would you like it is the Government cut the minimum wage by the same percentage as some of these doctors are losing out?

Exactly. People don't understand that being a doctor is not only a terribly busy and exhausting job but the costs to become a doctor, especially in the US are incredibly high. Going to college for even four years in the US could leave you $10,000-$40,000 dollars in debt. Now add in med school (another 4 years with higher prices) plus a couple of years of internship, many new doctors come into the field swarmed in debt.

[TheGravemind]

I can only assume this depends heavily on what the doctor specializes in. Some fields are bound to be much simpler than others. Educationally speaking, the major pain of becoming a doctor is the time commitment required. A medical doctor doesn't spend any more or less time per year on his studies than an engineer, but while an engineer will graduate with a masters degree after only 5 years, a medical doctor can spend as much (or more?) as 12 years before they've finished their initial studies.

I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to study to become a medical doctor for the money, because quite honestly the pay is quite terrible for the hours they need to work, the responsibility they have, and the incredible amount of time it takes for them to finish their education. If you want money, you study something business related. Become a financial engineer and you're all but guaranteed to earn 6 figures a year before you hit 30, even when you're bloody average and just working your typical 9-5 hours. If you're a genius of a financial engineer, you'll also become much richer than a genius of a medical doctor.

So yeah, if money is what you want, don't become a medical doctor.

Well, even entering medical school itself is an incredibly difficult task, so it's not even just that the sole educational pain of becoming one is the fact that there is a huge time commitment, it's that there's a huge time commitment and a burden of academic excellence that you must bear the entire way. It is far more difficult than becoming an engineer, trust me.

Yes, I would agree that becoming a doctor for the money is beyond idiotic. Those whose sole motivation to become a doctor is the supposed money are usually weeded out of the medical school admissions process early on (as their academic scores are not as high as well as their perceived psychological acuity during the interview process.)

[Elegiac]

Exactly. People don't understand that being a doctor is not only a terribly busy and exhausting job but the costs to become a doctor, especially in the US are incredibly high. Going to college for even four years in the US could leave you $10,000-$40,000 dollars in debt. Now add in med school (another 4 years with higher prices) plus a couple of years of internship, many new doctors come into the field swarmed in debt.

Yeah? The solution becomes thus; actually funding education to bring down the costs of medical education.

[Pengalor]

That doesn't matter for the argument.

Also, I think having a job purely for making money is... Well; silly. Sorry about saying this, but you and me... We're going to die. We're all going to die. Why waste your time watching numbers go up? I prefer to do what I love to do, instead, and, if that's not possible, to have a job that allows me to enjoy my time. And I don't care that much about being able to buy stuff.

Your first argument then falls on its face: Being a doctor is NOT just a job. It is (or should be) first and foremost a calling. A drive. To take care of others is to find fulfillment. Sure; in a capitalist system, this becomes hard as hospitals refuse to hire enough staff because of additional expenses, choosing instead to work their staff to the ground, which means that the staff will need to be paid lots of money to even consider working under such conditions. But that doesn't change the nature of the profession; it changes the environment in which it is practiced.

Your second argument equally falls on its face, because an equal percentage in loss of monetary wealth is NOT an equal percentage in loss of wealth. A loaf of bread costs fifty pence, whether you're a doctor or a burgerflipper. A doctor who loses 10% of their income loses more money than a burgerflipper who loses 10% income, but they don't lose by far as much wealth.
So again it doesn't match up.

Economy 1-0-1. Endus would probably be better able to explain it more intelligibly.

The only legitimate point is the 'second argument' paragraph. The rest was just very biased opinion. People do things for different reasons, just because you don't agree with someone getting a job just for the cash doesn't make it 'wrong'.

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Yeah? The solution becomes thus; actually funding education to bring down the costs of medical education.

Where exactly do you suggest we get the money for that?

[PaladinBash]

I wouldn't go through university for 8 years (or however long a specific doctorate takes) if I wasn't going to make lots of money. People seem to have ludicrous and outdated expectations of a lot of industries and health care is one of them. The people in it are normal everyday people that want money so they can do stuff outside of work. Just because their job is to save lives doesn't mean they are magical faery tale princesses and they should be happy to do it for bugger all is retarded. Nurses have to deal with absolutely sickening things and get paid dramatically less than any doctor yet people seem to hold them to pretty ridiculous standards as well. Why should doctors, who study longer still and know even more, get screwed out of lots of money? I mean really, they can't get paid enough for what they do. It's horrible work at the end of the day even if you love it and it's important, just as being in the military or some other unpleasant but necessary profession.

[Gilian]

What a poor, poor tip.

If a Doctor is earning £1,000,000 a year, they're typically the best damn doctor in their field, and I want them to be the one doing my surgery, though if they were on that sort of money, I'd be going through Private Health Care to get to them, not the NHS or ObamaCare.

Because everyone who makes more money is better at what they do. That's how the world works. /sarcasm

Like doctors don't cheat their way up the ladder. Like by not doing surgeries because the chance of failure is too high.

I rather have a doctor who cares about their patients instead of their money/carreer. I also have no clue what a doctor earns when I go see them if I would want to "rate" them based on that.

[TheGravemind]

The only legitimate point is the 'second argument' paragraph. The rest was just very biased opinion. People do things for different reasons, just because you don't agree with someone getting a job just for the cash doesn't make it 'wrong'.

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Where exactly do you suggest we get the money for that?

Well, part of the medical school admissions process includes weeding out people who are in it purely for the money (as those types of people are easily demoralized by the sheer workload involved in being a doctor, and eventually experience a devolution of work ethic/skill/motivation/etc, which is undesired), so his first argument holds merit, too.

[Pengalor]

Because everyone who makes more money is better at what they do. That's how the world works. /sarcasm

Like doctors don't cheat their way up the ladder. Like by not doing surgeries because the chance of failure is too high.

I rather have a doctor who cares about their patients instead of their money/carreer. I also have no clue what a doctor earns when I go see them if I would want to "rate" them based on that.

By that logic you also wouldn't have any idea whether they care about their patients or not.

[Elegiac]

Where exactly do you suggest we get the money for that?

A lovely little thing called taxes.

[Aktavite]

A lovely little thing called taxes.

Don't mention that word. It's a dirty word to the people of this thread.