Are you Conservative or a Liberal?

[GreatOak]

You can be a libertarian socialist as well.

Yeah there are quite a few but most are outside the US.

And liberals don't love government.

They have a sort of stockholm syndrome with government that I never understood, but more power to them. They often dislike shady government (and business) action as much as we do and are sometimes wisely skeptical of government power, yet want the government to solve most problems and foster an environment where everything is happy fun time for everyone. I think most of them are good people that are tolerant and respectful but misguided, though. Many don't realize that corrupted centralized power tends to fuck you in the ass regardless of whether or not it comes from public or private institutions.

Being someone who is in somewhere in between a Liberal/Progressive and Libertarian I can sympathize with them but think they're inconsistent and appeal to emotions too often rather than practicalities and logic. They probably think the same things about us, when they aren't building up anarchist strawmen and throwing criticisms that only include the lowest hanging fruit anyways. For what it's worth, I tend to like them a hell of a lot more than conservatives. That's probably why I get more upset when they act in a hypocritical manner.

Oh and I like how you can't say militarily conservative.

You could but it would be confusing to most people. Does it mean we need to go back to non-interventionism? Does it mean that we should be adventurous and in everyone's business like most modern conservatives believe?

[Payday]

The conservative view is that gun control is a state affair, not a federal one. Also, we don't create meaningless terms like "assault weapon".

Well that would be one way you could interpret "out of my cold dead hands"

Not the direction I would take, but whatever works for ya.

[Youarefired]

"I ain't neither on of them. I'm Donny."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IW1mbaIlIc

[Wells]

There's nothing stockkholmy about liberals. They just view government as a powerful tool that can be used to great effect when carefully controlled

[GreatOak]

Hats off to you then!

Aside from just being inflammatory, I think the OP has fallen into a very common misconception. A lot of liberals are unpatriotic. They hate national pride and American strength. But that isn't because they are liberals, it's because they are awful people. You can be a downright communist and still love your country. Hell, the Soviets were some of the most nationalistic people to ever live.

So while the left certainly has more unpatriotic filth (because being conservative almost implies a certain level of nationalism), it certainly does not mean that you can't have patriotic liberals, such as yourself.

Liberals are usually more patriotic than Conservatives in my opinion. They believe in more of our core fundamental values. They're usually more critical of government than Conservatives as well, and more loving of people all around the world.

[Kapadons]

please do tell us what he does stand for then, and don't be insulted when I laugh my ass off at the ridiculous response you make. in fact I have to say I'm laughing at this one right here.

Had a large response ready to go and decided it wasn't worth it. Wasn't going to pull any of you libs out of your government made cocoon. Liberals support government rights, not citizens rights/freedom. They believe in justice if it fits their political agenda. They don't believe in equal rights they believe in preferential treatment for minorities. They actively promote reverse discrimination. This is not EQUAL RIGHTS.

[GreatOak]

it's fairly conservative to believe in gun control. it's right in the constitution.

Yeah the right wings in other countries are usually the ones that want gun control, not the center-left

[Wells]

Liberals are usually more patriotic than Conservatives in my opinion. They believe in more of our core fundamental values. They're usually more critical of government than Conservatives as well, and more loving of people all around the world.

Honestly I think liberals better hold true the ideals of questioning authority.

[Sky High]

Aside from just being inflammatory, I think the OP has fallen into a very common misconception. A lot of liberals are unpatriotic. They hate national pride and American strength. But that isn't because they are liberals, it's because they are awful people. You can be a downright communist and still love your country. Hell, the Soviets were some of the most nationalistic people to ever live.

nationalism is a scary thing, I think we can look to other places and see where "national pride" has lead to bad places. being critical is not the same as being "unpatriotic". and I can sit here naming off all the things that are awful and what I hate about conservatives but ya know what it doesn't really mean anything beyond my worthless opinion, and for that matters yours.....

So while the left certainly has more unpatriotic filth (because being conservative almost implies a certain level of nationalism)

no it doesn't. I know plenty of "conservative" libertarians that wouldn't think twise about rising up and fighting the government. oh, blanket statements are so fun!

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Had a large response ready to go and decided it wasn't worth it. Wasn't going to pull any of you libs out of your government made cocoon. Liberals support government rights, not citizens rights/freedom. They believe in justice if it fits their political agenda. They don't believe in equal rights they believe in preferential treatment for minorities. They actively promote reverse discrimination. This is not EQUAL RIGHTS.

so, more of your rhetoric to go along with my coffee, nice. bitter, but I like bitterness sometimes. I doubt you would appreciate me going on a tirade on all the shit goes on on "your side" but hey then again I wasn't going to wake you from your stupor. /sips coffee

[arcady]

I don't see where his comments were foul or inflammatory. We don't know his family and he very well may be more patriotic than them.

His insinuation that by being conservative he is more patriotic. That is an inflammatory accusation.

I would question, based on the first reply I got:
whether patriotism should be defined as belief in the leaders and 'tribalistic aspects' of your nationality,
or whether it should be defined as belief in the ideals and principles of your nationality.

For most countries, the answer might obviously be the first choice - because they countries about 'a people', but for the USA, we are a country founded on the ideals of a document, and have been from many 'tribes of people' from the get-go.

[Kapadons]

nationalism is a scary thing, I think we can look to other places and see where "national pride" has lead to bad places. being critical is not the same as being "unpatriotic". and I can sit here naming off all the things that are awful and what I hate about conservatives but ya know what it doesn't really mean anything beyond my worthless opinion, and for that matters yours.....

no it doesn't. I know plenty of "conservative" libertarians that wouldn't think twise about rising up and fighting the government. oh, blanket statements are so fun!

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so, more of your rhetoric to go along with my coffee, nice. bitter, but I like bitterness sometimes. I doubt you would appreciate me going on a tirade on all the shit goes on on "your side" but hey then again I wan't to wake you from your stupor. /sips coffee

There is a difference in throwing off the shackles of government corruption ,greed, and lobbyists and being part "blame America first"crowd.


One would say the former makes you a patriot, not unpatriotic

[Wells]

If were defining unpatriotic to mean "questions fundamental american values" then the he's right and there are absolutely more of those people on the left by definition. That's not a bad thing though and does not make them filth.

[Kapadons]

nationalism is a scary thing, I think we can look to other places and see where "national pride" has lead to bad places. being critical is not the same as being "unpatriotic". and I can sit here naming off all the things that are awful and what I hate about conservatives but ya know what it doesn't really mean anything beyond my worthless opinion, and for that matters yours.....

no it doesn't. I know plenty of "conservative" libertarians that wouldn't think twise about rising up and fighting the government. oh, blanket statements are so fun!

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so, more of your rhetoric to go along with my coffee, nice. bitter, but I like bitterness sometimes. I doubt you would appreciate me going on a tirade on all the shit goes on on "your side" but hey then again I wasn't going to wake you from your stupor. /sips coffee

The difference is I too would go on a tirade with you about the shit on "my side". It needs to stop, period. But everything I named is in the basic description of Liberal vs conservative views. Liberals favor big government. You can't have big government and individual rights.



"Liberals believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. Believe the role of the government should be to guarantee that no one is in need. Liberal policies generally emphasize the need for the government to solve problems"

"Conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals. Conservative policies generally emphasize empowerment of the individual to solve problems."


Edit- Liberals don't have a bad view. I just think the practice of it has been extremely skewed. But I could say the same for conservatives. That is more than likely why you have seen a majority of this thread say they are socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

[Kalyyn]

Oh please conservatives bitch about state level gun control all the time.

"conservatives".

Frankly, anyone complaining about the laws of a state they don't live in needs something better to do with their time.

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If were defining unpatriotic to mean "questions fundamental american values" then the he's right and there are absolutely more of those people on the left by definition. That's not a bad thing though and does not make them filth.

Unpatriotic, to me, means that you do not support America's right to independence, i.e, anyone who would have us bend to the will of the international community.

[Wells]

"conservatives".

Frankly, anyone complaining about the laws of a state they don't live in needs something better to do with their time.

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Unpatriotic, to me, means that you do not support America's right to independence, i.e, anyone who would have us bend to the will of the international community.

Why should someone not care about overreach in another state? Those people are still Americans. We should care about how their local government treats them.

[Sky High]

There is a difference in throwing off the shackles of government corruption ,greed, and lobbyists and being part "blame America first"crowd.

One would say the former makes you a patriot, not unpatriotic

what are the complaints of this "blame america first" crowd you speak of.

[Kalyyn]

Why should someone not care about overreach in another state? Those people are still Americans. We should care about how their local government treats them.

Now that's just condescending. Don't try to pretend that you actually care about my quality of living. Far as I can tell, you just hate my way of life and can't stand the thought of it.

If you actually cared about us, you'd realize that we're happy with the way we live. We chose it, after all.

[Sky High]

Edit- Liberals don't have a bad view. I just think the practice of it has been extremely skewed. But I could say the same for conservatives. That is more than likely why you have seen a majority of this thread say they are socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

so this is nothing but your opinion on the matter, good. I'm sure I can buy some real nice shoes with these 2 cents.

[Wells]

Now that's just condescending. Don't try to pretend that you actually care about my quality of living. Far as I can tell, you just hate my way of life and can't stand the thought of it.

If you actually cared about us, you'd realize that we're happy with the way we live. We chose it, after all.

Where the fuck did this come from? Srsly.

[GreatOak]

"conservatives".

Frankly, anyone complaining about the laws of a state they don't live in needs something better to do with their time.

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Unpatriotic, to me, means that you do not support America's right to independence, i.e, anyone who would have us bend to the will of the international community.

Is it unpatriotic to believe America should follow international law it agreed to and respect the sovereignty of other nations?