[Holy] Patch 5.4 PTR - Changes Discussion Pt. 2

[nightfalls]

Ya! I chose to do so because assessing healing through a rotation is already flawed and it was my way to add a non rotation component. It is perfect and I see why you disagree.

The reason I would not is because I would rather see the rotations compared against each other, because after all, the main concern with secondary stats is the "filler" component and getting the most throughput/mana that way. HPrism I see more as a CD that relies more on encounter timing and reaction than stats or its inclusion in a rotation, though I do have HPrism scale factors (separately) in my spreadsheet.

[edit] Updated OP and added the relevant raid healing glyphs.

[Bijin]

Hi guys! I have been playing holy since i started playing in 5.2 I'm in a 11/13 HC guild trying to kill lei shen but i still do have a lot of problems with theorycrafting and patch notes ( since i don´t have enough time to test in the ptr or read 52 pages of a thread :P ). I was wondering if you guys could simplify me what'll be the best build for my ten man semi hardcore guild. Like the standar build for most of the fights.

Sorry if my english is bad (i'm from argentina) or i posted this on a wrong thread, i'm also new to MMO-Champion Forums.

Hola soy de Costa Rica y llevo un poco más leído acá, la verdad parece que el mejor built del PTR es el mismo de ahora, full mastery y Eternal Flame...

Sorry but is faster and easier in spanish...

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It assumes you hit 6 people, which will happen 90% of the time on 25 man. On 10 man HR will not hit 6 but LoD should.

Ok in 10 man would be better use the glyph of LoD...

[Sellinz]

I haven't been able to truly keep up with the thread as of late so can someone tell me if my TL;DR assessment is correct? Haste and Mastery are on par with each-other now and EF is still the go to

[Deleted]

This is without Holy Prism in the rotation:

In that chart you have higher pool of secondary stats than in Bouchbagettes chart. That is one reason for more HPS I think?

Your chart is done with SoO gear and Bouchbagettes with current gear am I right?

Because those values are not achievable with your gear either if you would now just add amplification trinket on you.

MOD EDIT: Please remember to thumbnail or remove large images when quoting.

[Freia]

Ok in 10 man would be better use the glyph of LoD...

No, it isn't.

[Deleted]

In that chart you have higher pool of secondary stats than in Bouchbagettes chart. That is one reason for more HPS I think?

Your chart is done with SoO gear and Bouchbagettes with current gear am I right?

Because those values are not achievable with your gear either if you would now just add amplification trinket on you.

The only items from t16 are 4 tier pieces and amp trinket, rest is all live gear.

[Deleted]

The only items from t16 are 4 tier pieces and amp trinket, rest is all live gear.

Well there is 6000 stat points more to spend if compared from spreadsheet to your armory, it's quite a lot.

[pretiwhitboy]

Why is the lod glyph not good for 10 mans I thought it was.

[Blash]

Can someone please confirm me the new HR mechanism? I need to update my HR helper addon for Grid to match the new mechanism.

First, the main target doesn't count (and doesn't get healed) by the AoE healing part. Then you take 50% of the single target amount, this defines the base value for the AoE healing.

If there are 1 to 6 players around (again, not counting the main target), each is healed for this base amount. This should be identical to current HR.

Examples:
6 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*6 = 160k total healing
3 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*3 = 100k total healing
1 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*1 = 60k total healing

It differs however when there are more than 6 players.

10 targets, before -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, (20k*6)/10 = 12k / players -> 40k+12k*10 = 160k total healing, with 10 people healed
10 targets, after -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, still 20k / player -> 40k + 20k*6 = 160k total healing, but only 6 people got healed (+ the initial target).

Is it correct? Thanks!

[Deleted]

Well there is 6000 stat points more to spend if compared from spreadsheet to your armory, it's quite a lot.

Those are the stats:

[Deleted]

Why is the lod glyph not good for 10 mans I thought it was.

Because the LoD glyph is a self nerf.

Right now LoD heals 6 targets for x, totaling 6x.
The LoD glyphed version heals 4 targets for 1.25*x totaling 5x

Its very unlikely you'll find a situation in 10 man where 4 targets need 1.25*x and at the same time 6 targets wouldn't need x healing. Also other mechanics such as Beacon,IH(and IH refresh), Legendary Cloak favor LoD unglyphed.

[Bijin]

No, it isn't.

Ok

But.. But.. Why no, 2 targets less but 25% more healing

More heals more shield... or not????

[Peachpies]

becuase you are doing about 17% less total healing if you use the glyph

[zepyjoe]

Ok

But.. But.. Why no, 2 targets less but 25% more healing

More heals more shield... or not????

K let say Lod hits for 10k per holy power
10k x 6 = 60k no glyph....10x + 25% = 12.5k so with glyph it 12.5 x 4 = 50k

you do 15% less healing,beacon tranfer and less shielding per holy power with the glyph and you refresh IH on 2 less targets.

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only time i could see glyph being useful is if there a fight where the raid is so spread out there only 4 in 30 yd range.
that not very likely.

[Freia]

Ok

But.. But.. Why no, 2 targets less but 25% more healing

More heals more shield... or not????

Your LoD is healing the whole raid for less and you are refreshing your shield on fewer people. The only time the glyph has use is if you are doing 5mans or if you have a 10m Raid encounter where you will be split into groups for most if not all of the duration so you will never hit 6 people with LoD.

EDIT: Deleted simple math since zepy beat me to it.

[Stricks]

For the 10 man raiders... Are you all using LoD in 5.3? Everything I had heard was it was always better to EF. I'm literally never using LoD.

[pretiwhitboy]

What glyphs will we want to be using for 10 man with all the changes?

[nightfalls]

I am not sure if the current guide will be updated for 5.4, but if not I can plan a "5.4 survival guide" that will recap the main changes and talent/glyph choices for 5.4. Will probably be too busy to have an entire "everything" guide up for Tuesday though, but most of the super-basic stuff (like "what does holy light do") will be the same.

[Bizerk]

I think sacrifice glyph will be needed, with the other 2 on whatever you like i guess.

[MCC]

Can someone please confirm me the new HR mechanism? I need to update my HR helper addon for Grid to match the new mechanism.

First, the main target doesn't count (and doesn't get healed) by the AoE healing part. Then you take 50% of the single target amount, this defines the base value for the AoE healing.

If there are 1 to 6 players around (again, not counting the main target), each is healed for this base amount. This should be identical to current HR.

Examples:
6 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*6 = 160k total healing
3 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*3 = 100k total healing
1 targets -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, 20k / player -> 40k+20k*1 = 60k total healing

It differs however when there are more than 6 players.

10 targets, before -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, (20k*6)/10 = 12k / players -> 40k+12k*10 = 160k total healing, with 10 people healed
10 targets, after -> 40k single target, 20k base AoE, still 20k / player -> 40k + 20k*6 = 160k total healing, but only 6 people got healed (+ the initial target).

Is it correct? Thanks!

No.

Your HR will heal 6 people total. This includes the target of the spell (in other words, HR will heal the target and 5 others). The target will be healed by X, each of the other 5 people will be healed by X/2. I don't know how exactly targets are selected, but all other smart heals target the lowest health players and HR probably does the same.