How Goldman Sachs schemed your money out of... Everything?

[Cthulhu 2020]

http://my.firedoglake.com/fflambeau/...ids-tentacles/

What funny is Goldman Sachs STRONGLY favors the democratic party. They were HUGE campaign donors to the Obama campaigns in 2008 and 2012, much more so than the GOP opponents. Obama's administration is FILLED with Goldman Sachs people.

But, for some strange reason, people thought Obama would work AGAINST the banks, and people seem to think the banks are in the republican corner. The banks are in the DEMOCRAT corner, and always have been.

Hell, it was democrats that established the IMF and world bank. Democrats run those organizations, not republicans. I hear so many democrat rank and file voters that complain about the banks, yet they don't seem to notice the banks are in the democrat's corner....

Look at Joe Biden. He is the ex-senator from Delaware. You know what Delaware is famous for, right? They are the home of a lot of credit card companies, because that state gives special tax breaks to credit card companies. Biden has been squarely in the back pocket of big banks, helping drown the poor people in credit card debt. And his reward is to get the veep nomination and the poor people RUSH to vote for this guy....

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad....

Both parties are in the pockets of large corps, banks, and other big money. It isn't exactly the breaking story of the century. For a bit there, it was mostly the GOP that was in bed with them, but since Obama's election, it's become obvious that the Democrats are as well. I often correct people when they mistakenly blame Obama for shit he didn't do (mostly blaming him for being a socialist and other "too far left" stuff he didn't do), but I'm well aware of all the shit he has done to pander to big money.

Oddly enough, lefties don't like Obama because he's too far right. We wanted another Clinton and instead got G. W. Bush Jr Light™.

[Crissi]

Both parties are in the pockets of large corps, banks, and other big money. It isn't exactly the breaking story of the century. For a bit there, it was mostly the GOP that was in bed with them, but since Obama's election, it's become obvious that the Democrats are as well. I often correct people when they mistakenly blame Obama for shit he didn't do (mostly blaming him for being a socialist and other "too far left" stuff he didn't do), but I'm well aware of all the shit he has done to pander to big money.

Oddly enough, lefties don't like Obama because he's too far right. We wanted another Clinton and instead got G. W. Bush Jr Light™.

Hell, I'd settle for another Nixon, without all the Watergate scandal stuff.

[Olo]

Both parties are in the pockets of large corps, banks, and other big money. It isn't exactly the breaking story of the century. For a bit there, it was mostly the GOP that was in bed with them, but since Obama's election, it's become obvious that the Democrats are as well. I often correct people when they mistakenly blame Obama for shit he didn't do (mostly blaming him for being a socialist and other "too far left" stuff he didn't do), but I'm well aware of all the shit he has done to pander to big money.

Oddly enough, lefties don't like Obama because he's too far right. We wanted another Clinton and instead got G. W. Bush Jr Light™.

Complaining about poor banking policy and asking for another Clinton? The same guy who deregulated derivatives, paved the way for sub-primes, and tore down the firewall between investment and commercial banks?

[oxymoronic]

Well we definitely don't have a capitalistic society if this is illegal. That wouldn't bother me though.

[Laize]

They are getting around a law that tries to prevent this by having a quota for metal leave the plant. They do this by hiring truck drivers to move metals from one plant to another and then back. If you think this is a result of mismanagement, I got an aluminum bridge to sell you.

What they are doing is called insider trading on the stock market.

It's pretty funny, they have an 8 year old explain it:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/enter...n-sachs/67635/

Assuming what you say is true (And I've no reason to believe it is), you're referring to market manipulation. Not insider trading.

Goldman says the aluminum isn't theirs, that they comply with the laws and that the delays in delivery are caused by staffing shortages.

Not a single one of these points is implausible.

Does it warrant an investigation? Probably. Do I think it'll turn anything up? Almost certainly not. I can guarantee that if what Goldman is doing goes against the intent of the law, it does so through a loophole... which makes it a dick move, but still legal.

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Complaining about poor banking policy and asking for another Clinton? The same guy who deregulated derivatives, paved the way for sub-primes, and tore down the firewall between investment and commercial banks?

I would rather go back to the days before Glass-Steagall and the FDIC.

[Volitar]

Sickening, I hope those asshole get whats coming to them.

[banur]

However, in this case, it is blatantly about organized market manipulation, creating an artificial cost to society in the form of wasted energy and time.

I know a secret how to beat market manipulation: Don't buy.

You should have put theese people on the guillotine during the financial crisis.

Yes, right after we chopped the head off of the people who were gullible enough to believe in rising home values and stack mortgages on their homes to pay of a smaller mortgage on their home and make money in the process.
I recently watched a documentary about this and the interviewer asked whether the bank clerk knew the couple. They answered "Not at all, but the bank trusted the clerk so it must be fine that he can hand out a credit over 170,000 along with the estate. I didn't found it odd."
How dense can one be?

There is a special spot in hell for people like Goldman Sachs
They DESERVE to die, slowly for destroying our society only for their own greed

There is a special place on earth for people who have no grasp of economics. They DESERVE to die, too. For whining how everything is unfair.

Who were the people that approved of this? Oh yeah, the customers. If you think something is too expensive, DON'T BUY IT! That sends the signal to the business that they need to lower the price.
Did your favourite can of soda become more expensive due to this "scam"? Have you paid for it anyway? If you answered yes then it is YOUR fault that they keep this practice. Guess what a business with a warehouse full of unsold aluminium will do if no one is willing to buy for their price?

[Adam Jensen]

There is a special place on earth for people who have no grasp of economics. They DESERVE to die, too. For whining how everything is unfair.

Who were the people that approved of this? Oh yeah, the customers. If you think something is too expensive, DON'T BUY IT! That sends the signal to the business that they need to lower the price.
Did your favourite can of soda become more expensive due to this "scam"? Have you paid for it anyway? If you answered yes then it is YOUR fault that they keep this practice. Guess what a business with a warehouse full of unsold aluminium will do if no one is willing to buy for their price?

Oh yes, its totally the consumer's fault when they don't have a clue what the company is doing behind closed doors.

[Deleted]

Personally I despise the people using these methods.
But, a little more objectively, all they do is to play the game right. When only limited amounts of resources are available, and nothing is in place to determine a fair distribution (or one can manipulate those), the only question that remains is: Who takes / gets which slice of the cake?

[Cthulhu 2020]

Assuming what you say is true (And I've no reason to believe it is), you're referring to market manipulation. Not insider trading.

Goldman says the aluminum isn't theirs, that they comply with the laws and that the delays in delivery are caused by staffing shortages.

Not a single one of these points is implausible.

Does it warrant an investigation? Probably. Do I think it'll turn anything up? Almost certainly not. I can guarantee that if what Goldman is doing goes against the intent of the law, it does so through a loophole... which makes it a dick move, but still legal.

It's still "legal" in the sense that the law designed to prevent market manipulation has a giant fucking loophole. The law tells them that they must move 3000 tons of aluminum out of the warehouse. Period. The intent of the law is that they sell that 3000 tons (at least). What they actually do is just hire people to move that 3000 tons "out of the warehouse" and drive around with it for a bit them return it to a different warehouse.

Yeah. It's "legal". But so is bill of rights breaching wire tapping.

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I know a secret how to beat market manipulation: Don't buy.

I hate these kinds of ignorant statements, about how a few people protesting buying what is a metal that is in essentially everything these days is going to in any way hurt the company. It's so ignorant and such a cop out counter argument that it's hardly even worth responding to.

[oxymoronic]

It's like that party is a boy's club. Bush could have committed genocide and they'd still have backed him.

Meanwhile, Obama is quickly being disenfranchised by many Democratic voters. And laughably enough, not for any of the fake "too liberal" reasons Republicans try to pin on him, but because he's too conservative.

Hes not too conservative, he just uses common sense and liberals hate that.

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Thing is, Sarah Palin is such an idiot, I wouldn't put it past her to call for the invasion of the Czech Republic.

Why are you even entertaining propaganda? You know this is fake...

[banur]

Oh yes, its totally the consumer's fault when they don't have a clue what the company is doing behind closed doors.

No, you, as a customer decides by SPENDING MONEY and if you buy an item with aluminium and think the price is justified, the business won't change. That is your power and if you don't exercise it, your fault as well.
The soda company and the aluminium company have to split what the customer is willing to pay. The "How" doesn't affect the customer.

I hate these kinds of ignorant statements, about how a few people protesting buying what is a metal that is in essentially everything these days is going to in any way hurt the company. It's so ignorant and such a cop out counter argument that it's hardly even worth responding to.

Then don't buy things you think are too expensive? Why would any business CARE what you shout when you pay the price they want anyway?
You have such an enormous power as a customer and all you do is protest? Open your eyes and understand how capitalism works.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Hes not too conservative, he just uses common sense and liberals hate that.

I wouldn't really call pandering to big business and big money, and taking away individual rights of citizens, common sense. But that kind of thing has been conservative "common sense" for awhile.

Then don't buy things you think are too expensive? Why would any business CARE what you shout when you pay the price they want anyway?
You have such an enormous power as a customer and all you do is protest? Open your eyes and understand how capitalism works.

Millions of people buy millions of products that use aluminum every day. If you think even a few thousand people boycotting is going to be any more effective than protesting, you really don't have even a remotely loose grasp of capitalism/economics. It's going to be about hitting at the heart, rallying people to message their local representatives.

[banur]

Millions of people buy millions of products that use aluminum every day. If you think even a few thousand people boycotting is going to be any more effective than protesting, you really don't have even a remotely loose grasp of capitalism/economics. It's going to be about hitting at the heart, rallying people to message their local representatives.

Then it seems like millions of people don't care about it and are willing to spend more on aluminium products.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Then it seems like millions of people don't care about it and are willing to spend more on aluminium products.

You think people want to pay more for canned goods because a company is using a shady loophole in the law?

It's a good thing nobody can turn air into a commodity. We'd have people saying "Don't like being charged to breath? Then don't breath." Some people will always defend shady corporate practices.

[Paranoid Android]

The Daily Show did a piece on this on Thursday. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLKffO6Tpks
It's legal because of a dumb loophole, like many things.

Yeah, basically there is a law where you have to ship 3.000 tons/day from your warehouse. All they did was play a shell game where they shipped it from one place to another, not to the open market. Again, this is a good example of people who rail against government regulation and think that no regulations is what we need. The government actually tried regulate prices by saying you have to sell/ship a certain amount. Well Goldman found a loophole. I would love to see what our country would look like if we, the consumers, had no protection at all.

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No, you, as a customer decides by SPENDING MONEY and if you buy an item with aluminium and think the price is justified, the business won't change. That is your power and if you don't exercise it, your fault as well.
The soda company and the aluminium company have to split what the customer is willing to pay. The "How" doesn't affect the customer.

Then don't buy things you think are too expensive? Why would any business CARE what you shout when you pay the price they want anyway?
You have such an enormous power as a customer and all you do is protest? Open your eyes and understand how capitalism works.

Wow! You obviously don't get and sad to say people like you are the ones who believe that free market can regulate itself. First off they are not gouging the market by making your can of soda $10. They are manipulating the price enough to make huge profits by a small amount that it gets passed on to us, the consumer. We, for most part don't recognize the added price we are paying. Also if this and many others were not discovered and became news most people are ignorant to what prices are being fixed and how they are paying for that. Just think of Enron and California or every time how gas prices are speculated.

[Felya]

Assuming what you say is true (And I've no reason to believe it is), you're referring to market manipulation. Not insider trading.

You could click the link I provided.

Goldman says the aluminum isn't theirs, that they comply with the laws and that the delays in delivery are caused by staffing shortages.

Not a single one of these points is implausible.

They are moving aluminum to one where house and back. If it was not theirs, it would be going to those who do own it. The video in the link I provided had qoutes from truck drivers joking with each other about moving the same thing back and forth.

Does it warrant an investigation? Probably. Do I think it'll turn anything up? Almost certainly not. I can guarantee that if what Goldman is doing goes against the intent of the law, it does so through a loophole... which makes it a dick move, but still legal.

Ofcource it won't turn anything up. Even if it did, the punishment would be a bail out. Them tanking the US economy, was not illigal. But, then again, I'm just a random Internet poster and not a government official. So, my disdain for what is happening, does not have legal boundaries.

[banur]

You think people want to pay more for canned goods because a company is using a shady loophole in the law?

Do I think people want to pay more? No, who would want to pay more if they don't have to? But I don't judge what people THINK, I obseve how they ACT, and that is obviously paying.

They are manipulating the price enough to make huge profits by a small amount that it gets passed on to us, the consumer. We, for most part don't recognize the added price we are paying.

They make profits for being the middle man. So what? Is it news that we could get things cheaper when skipping them? Again, if you don't like it, signal it by not paying.

[Wilian]

I better not go to foreign countries because ships and planes have aluminium, I better not buy car because those have aluminium too, I should probably stop using PCs too as quite a few parts use aluminium.

It's not a simple act of "stop buying" as you advocate, since thanks to the monopoly and oligopoly status of these corporations makes sure that whatever you do, it always somehow profits them until you simply decide to not take part it modern life as it is.

And since it's not just aluminium a scheme like this concerns, it gets even more impossible.

[Felya]

They make profits for being the middle man. So what? Is it news that we could get things cheaper when skipping them? Again, if you don't like it, signal it by not paying.

Are you suggesting that the way to fight this, is to stop using or buying products with aluminum?