View Poll Results: What are your feelings on Hit & Expertise?

Voters
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  • Hit & Expertise requirements should be removed

    204 34.00%
  • They should stay, but be made less restrictive

    87 14.50%
  • The current system is fine

    309 51.50%
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  1. #1

    Is it time to remove Hit & Expertise requirements?

    I think it is time to remove Hit and Expertise requirements from the Game. Blizzard often stresses the importance of making the game feel fun, which I strongly agree with and this change will do just that. Having to tweak your hit/expertise is boring and takes away from the more fun stats like crit, haste and mastery. I still believe there should be a small chance for a mob to dodge, parry or be missed by your spell, but this chance should scale automatically depending on the level difference between you and the npc.

    I have spoken to quite a number of people in-game about this and most tend to agree that hit/expertise requirements are an unnecessary feature, considering the way the game has evolved over the years.

    Edit: This suggestion is NOT about making the game easier, it is about making it MORE FUN.
    Last edited by Divine Path; 2013-07-27 at 01:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Blademaster Gutigen's Avatar
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    Agree, but only if talent trees will get expanded, we don't want simple action game (some classic cRPG elements should stay in WoW).
    Rob Pardo, GDC 2008:
    "We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by"

  3. #3
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    I like them... It will be too boring, if you don't need to tweak your gear..
    I also think we should have Defense-stat back... Not only for plate users, but also for bears, like we had in TBC..
    Also, everyone lved reststance fights.. We clearly need resistance back...
    Last edited by FuxieDK; 2013-07-27 at 01:24 PM.

  4. #4
    yay lets make game more easier for 12 years kids to handle and stats wise boring

  5. #5
    oh god yes, please. such a fucking pain in the ass. there's no fuckin' way you're gonna miss a giant ass boss with a spell or sword anyway, so it's a needless stat. i want big fuckin' numbers, all my stats devoted to blowing shit up >: )

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zstr View Post
    yay lets make game more easier for 12 years kids to handle and stats wise boring
    Hit and expertise caps aren't difficult to do. But they aren't fun or interesting either. And they are pretty frustrating with the crappy itemization of the current tier.

    So I don't see how removing them makes it easier for 12 year olds really. It just opens the door for more interesting stats.

  7. #7
    i think its finelike this..

    why not only make Stamina + X items?

    no more reforging , no more gems , nothing..

    would be kinda boring no?^^

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Uselessrouge View Post
    i think its finelike this..

    why not only make Stamina + X items?

    no more reforging , no more gems , nothing..

    would be kinda boring no?^^
    I agree with this.

    And if they removed hit/expertise, then everyone would just tunnel stats into DPS, then DPS would be inflated, so they would need to balance around that.

  9. #9
    No; this is not a good idea at all.
    There's two solutions you can be going for:
    -No hit+exp stats at all, resulting in a vastly increased amount of misses, dodges and parries in PvP/PvE (and consequently whine, because that big hitter you desperately needed missed due to RNG boohoo, bad game blizz!)
    -Normalize levels. This means that you'll always deal your full damage to everything, never have a chance to miss anything, and tanks and agility classes will inevitably lose out on a very important defense: Avoidance. That's right, by going this route, avoidance will be completely removed from the game, which turns people into 'stand there and bear it' characters. Furthermore, this means that absorb mechanisms such as shield blocks and bubbles of all kinds need to be buffed to the point of infallibility, or fall short. Which means that your tanks will either become mana sponges to a point of removing their purpose from the game, or they will become pretty much immortal.

    Basically: No. It's a really, really bad idea.

  10. #10
    Why not remove all stats bar Stam/Str/Agi/Int, everyone goes on to Mr Robot if they don't know how to do it themselves anyway.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Kuel's Avatar
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    Yay! Lets simplify the game even more! I think that changes they made in Catacylsm were good, but to remove hit and expertise would just make everything way to simple.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by dejec1989 View Post
    Why not remove all stats bar Stam/Str/Agi/Int, everyone goes on to Mr Robot if they don't know how to do it themselves anyway.
    I welcome opinions that differ from my own, but the "slippery slope" argument does not really apply to this topic.

    This is not about making the game easier, it is about making it more fun.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans zephid's Avatar
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    No, the more stats you remove the more you're dumbing down the game.

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    I just have to laugh at every "Let's simplify the game even more /sarcasm" Comment in this thread. I still say no, but it's not like it's hard to reach Hit/Exp Caps, plus they seemed to have removed the other stats that actually were interesting and did add something to the game.
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    Seriously. Can this guy please be banned from the forums?
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    Could we just get this fucking clown a ban or something? Pretty please?

  15. #15
    Yes I think those stats make the game less accessible for new players [who are needed much with current declining subscription numbers]. Also new players and Alts with bad gear have to sacrifice the majority of their stats with fresh gear to get Hit and Expertise capped while the stats of high ilvl players diverge too much, creating a situation where new players get overchallenged by gear requirements while the PvE Aspect of the Game becomes a snoozefest for good geared players at all situations except their one progress boss.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Sykol's Avatar
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    There's nothing difficult about juggling hit and expertise as stats. The only "difficulty" comes in figuring out which stat is more desirable to lose for that added hit in your situation, and that's about as difficult as deciding between having milk or coffee in your cereal at this point in the game.
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  17. #17
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    No; this is not a good idea at all.
    There's two solutions you can be going for:
    -No hit+exp stats at all, resulting in a vastly increased amount of misses, dodges and parries in PvP/PvE (and consequently whine, because that big hitter you desperately needed missed due to RNG boohoo, bad game blizz!)
    -Normalize levels. This means that you'll always deal your full damage to everything, never have a chance to miss anything, and tanks and agility classes will inevitably lose out on a very important defense: Avoidance. That's right, by going this route, avoidance will be completely removed from the game, which turns people into 'stand there and bear it' characters. Furthermore, this means that absorb mechanisms such as shield blocks and bubbles of all kinds need to be buffed to the point of infallibility, or fall short. Which means that your tanks will either become mana sponges to a point of removing their purpose from the game, or they will become pretty much immortal.

    Basically: No. It's a really, really bad idea.
    I think OP is refering to players losing the ability to miss, not mobs/bosses. He is only talking about removing hit/exp from gear not removing avoidance for tanks.

    With that said, no removing hit and expertise would not make the game more fun.

  18. #18
    I think what they could do is remove it from epics as a whole and let US reforge/gem/enchant into the 2 stats. I say this because my shaman and monk are both waaaay over hit caps atm from all the hit rating on ToT gear, which is only made worse with valour upgrading. Wonder what will happen with hit and exp in T16

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Spl4sh3r View Post
    I think OP is refering to players losing the ability to miss, not mobs/bosses. He is only talking about removing hit/exp from gear not removing avoidance for tanks.

    With that said, no removing hit and expertise would not make the game more fun.
    The point I'm making is that the two are intertwined. Oh, not hit and expertise stats as such (covered those in the first possibility), but the hit/expertise mechanics are the exact same as the dodge/parry/miss mechanics, so if you would normalize character/mob levels in order to no longer need hit/exp, what you accomplish is the destruction of avoidance.

    OP mentioned that she didn't want to normalize those (and keep missing and such in the game), but it would have huge ramifications for both PvE AND PvP. PvP would be dominated by plate classes stacking avoidance (because they would be the only ones who could really avoid being hit), and in PvE, the big hitters make up a great part of your DPS; a much larger part than 8% (standard melee miss chance against a monster of 3 char lvls higher than themselves). That means that if your hit falls into the 20-odd percent of either missing or being avoided, your DPS will drop significantly, turning DPS into a game of luck rather than skill.

    Basically: Hit/Expertise stats (used to be Weapon Skill stat) are necessary for allowing people to hit the target while maintaining avoidance balance as well as skill dependent play.
    Removal is not efficient. Transforming it into 'Weapon Skill' like it used to be is also inefficient because weapon skill has no diminishing returns and actually increases in item value as new tiers of power are made available.

    This idea is mathematically unsound.

  20. #20
    Brewmaster AutomaticBadger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stir View Post
    No; this is not a good idea at all.
    There's two solutions you can be going for:
    -No hit+exp stats at all, resulting in a vastly increased amount of misses, dodges and parries in PvP/PvE (and consequently whine, because that big hitter you desperately needed missed due to RNG boohoo, bad game blizz!)
    -Normalize levels. This means that you'll always deal your full damage to everything, never have a chance to miss anything, and tanks and agility classes will inevitably lose out on a very important defense: Avoidance. That's right, by going this route, avoidance will be completely removed from the game, which turns people into 'stand there and bear it' characters. Furthermore, this means that absorb mechanisms such as shield blocks and bubbles of all kinds need to be buffed to the point of infallibility, or fall short. Which means that your tanks will either become mana sponges to a point of removing their purpose from the game, or they will become pretty much immortal.

    Basically: No. It's a really, really bad idea.
    Slow down there dude. This could be easily sorted by adding a static +5% to hit all targets of the same level as you, we have that already on gear, so the stat would still be important on gear as above the 5% you are going to be getting more chances to not be hit.

    What the OP means is why keep hit/expertise on PvE gear. It is presumed that we are all going to be hit capped whenever we are simmed and without hitcapping we are instantly nerfed a crap load.

    Hell I'd be happy is they kept hit and expertise on PvP gear but removed it for PvE gear. Would help to differentiate the gears better as the stats would be wasted, or they could make them tied to PvP power so the only time it factors in is in PvP.

    Would lead to PvP gear being way better for PvP and PvE still good but missing out on the important hit stats.
    He slipped out of his royal garments, left eternity to enter time, divinity to wrap himself in humanity.
    The sea of glass, for the ocean of separation. He left peace, and for the first time felt pain.
    Because the very hands that held the stars were now sentenced to wear my scars.

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