Final Showdown. Tinkerer VS Demon Hunter

[Teriz]

The lore is why.

Demon Hunters are not just melee warlocks. I bet you think Illidan was a Warlock, too. Demon Hunters exist as a standalone cult, where they infuse themselves with Demonic Power to fight against Demons. Warlocks merely summon demons and fel fire to make themselves more powerful.

Shaman aren't Shadow Hunters either.

However, the existence of Shaman in the game with Shadow Hunter abilities fills the design space that a Shadow Hunter would fill.

[Talen]

The lore is why.

Since when did lore count? Blood Knights aren't Paladins. Neither are Sunwalkers. But guess what they show up as in game. Do you think Shadow priests have the same set of beliefs as Holy? Or that a Priestess of Elune worships and draws power from the Light?

If lore doesn't count for these and other classes, then why should DHs be unique and have it count for them? The answer is, it doesn't. As it is, even were we to count lore, the only lore that counts is DHs are secretive, shunned and ritualistic. Guess which class also fits that lore description?

EJL

[zenyatta]

DH, so hunters stop trying to take my pet away. They can be a mix of warlock and hunter, with one spec being more magic based, one being more archery based, and one being more melee. No pets for any of the specs, and everyone will be happy.

[Jessicka]

Shaman aren't Shadow Hunters either.

However, the existence of Shaman in the game with Shadow Hunter abilities fills the design space that a Shadow Hunter would fill.

There might be a better argument for Shadow Hunters if there were mechanics for, and weapons types of thrown Spears/Javelins. Those don't exist, so you kinda fall over before you begin. Probably another reason against Tinkers that too, you want a variety of weapons that aren't really reflected in game; you'd of course use them as talents/spells, but you'd still need a main hand weapon with which to autoattack, at which point you're little different from a Hunter, right?

[Teriz]

There might be a better argument for Shadow Hunters if there were mechanics for, and weapons types of thrown Spears/Javelins. Those don't exist, so you kinda fall over before you begin.

Can't the same be said of Warglaives? the only ones that exist in the game are the azzinoth blades, and only three classes can use them.

Probably another reason against Tinkers that too, you want a variety of weapons that aren't really reflected in game; you'd of course use them as talents/spells, but you'd still need a main hand weapon with which to autoattack, at which point you're little different from a Hunter, right?

Auto-attacking with a similar weapon doesn't cause class overlap.

[Cooper]

I can't believe somebody is actually arguing that the capacity to auto-attack with a (single!) sword and having a baseline dodge stat makes Warlocks into Demon Hunters.

And then he accuses everybody else of missing the point.

And by the way, there are four classes that can use the Warglaives now: Warrior, Death Knight, Rogue, Monk. Notice that not one of those is Warlock. And also they are not the only warglaives in game, they are just the only warglaives that players can use. There are at least three other warglaive models that NPCs use. The bare-bones one. The Blood Elves' orange ones. And the Twilight warglaives. Also the Silvermoon Guardians one, which would make four.

[Teriz]

I can't believe somebody is actually arguing that the capacity to auto-attack with a (single!) sword and having a baseline dodge stat makes Warlocks into Demon Hunters.

And then he accuses everybody else of missing the point.

And by the way, there are four classes that can use the Warglaives now: Warrior, Death Knight, Rogue, Monk. Notice that not one of those is Warlock. And also they are not the only warglaives in game, they are just the only warglaives that players can use. There are at least three other warglaive models that NPCs use. The bare-bones one. The Blood Elves' orange ones. And the Twilight warglaives. Also the Silvermoon Guardians one, which would make four.

The point really is that Blizzard would never design a class to specialize in one type of weapon. The only weapon DH players would want to use is the Warglaive. WoW classes need to be broader than that.

[Talen]

I can't believe somebody is actually arguing that the capacity to auto-attack with a (single!) sword and having a baseline dodge stat makes Warlocks into Demon Hunters.

And then he accuses everybody else of missing the point.

The point is that Warlocks can enter melee and actually engage in melee combat. You are arguing that they don't have the melee spell list and rotation, feel, viability...and you'd be correct. But that still doesn't mean Warlocks can't go into melee and swing a sword and so can actually fill the melee combat aspect of a DH role.

EJL

[Cooper]

The point really is that Blizzard would never design a class to specialize in one type of weapon. The only weapon DH players would want to use is the Warglaive. WoW classes need to be broader than that.

I would be a Demon Hunter player and I have no problem using weapons other than warglaives. Pretty much any one-handed slashing weapon and maybe daggers and fist weapons would suit the class. So one-handed swords, one-handed axes, daggers, probably throw in fist weapons, though I don't personally care for them. So, wrong.

[Teriz]

I would be a Demon Hunter player and I have no problem using weapons other than warglaives. Pretty much any one-handed slashing weapon and maybe daggers and fist weapons would suit the class. So one-handed swords, one-handed axes, daggers, probably throw in fist weapons, though I don't personally care for them. So, wrong.

You would have no problem with it, but you would never use those weapons. You would use a Warglaive, because that is the weapon of the concept.

What if Blizzard made it so DHs couldn't use Warglaives at all? Would that be a problem?

[Cooper]

You would have no problem with it, but you would never use those weapons. You would use a Warglaive, because that is the weapon of the concept.

What if Blizzard made it so DHs couldn't use Warglaives at all? Would that be a problem?

What if Blizzard made it so Tinkers couldn't use guns at all? Would that be a problem?

Of course it would be a problem, because it would be stupid.

Besides, Assassin rogues are almost literally unplayable if they equip anything other than daggers. Blizzard massacres a fairy village anytime somebody tries to dual-wield while tanking as a Blood DK. This is an irrelevant line of questioning.

Further, warglaives are aesthetically cool-looking independent of their connection to Demon Hunters. If there were warglaives in game relevant to current content or transmogrifiable, you'd see a lot of people using them, many of whom have no interest in Demon Hunters whatsoever.

[Deleted]

Demon Hunters should "turn" their weapons into WGs. They copy all the stats and add / subtract certain stats. For example if your a tank Int turns into Stamina

[Jessicka]

Can't the same be said of Warglaives? the only ones that exist in the game are the azzinoth blades, and only three classes can use them.

Warglaives are swords in game. Some pages back there's mention of them using other kinds of weapon in any case.

Auto-attacking with a similar weapon doesn't cause class overlap.

It does when it's using special attacks around firing a gun, isn't that what it amounts to? Like Hunters using traps and stuff around shooting.

[Teriz]

What if Blizzard made it so Tinkers couldn't use guns at all? Would that be a problem?

No, because the Tinker hero was melee.

- - - Updated - - -

Warglaives are swords in game. Some pages back there's mention of them using other kinds of weapon in any case.


It does when it's using special attacks around firing a gun, isn't that what it amounts to? Like Hunters using traps and stuff around shooting.

That depends on how a Tinker would be implemented. It doesn't have to work like that at all. Again, its one of the many benefits of having a broad archetype.

[Jtree]

Warglaives are swords in game. Some pages back there's mention of them using other kinds of weapon in any case.

Beat me to it.

Along the same lines, death knights are supposed to only use Runeblades. Yet once they became a class in WoW, the only "real runeblade" they got was the blue they earned in their starter area. After that they shared weapons with their fellow platers.

It seems reasonable to expect two things when a potential DH class is implemented: they will finish their starting zone with a lovely pair of swords, and they will be able to equip multiple weapon types so that they can keep a steady stream of upgrades coming. With transmog, the look of dual-glaives is easy to maintain, and more glaives would likely be endgame drops in a DH-inclusive expansion, giving all the dual-wielders access to them.

And by the way, there are four classes that can use the Warglaives now: Warrior, Death Knight, Rogue, Monk. Notice that not one of those is Warlock. And also they are not the only warglaives in game, they are just the only warglaives that players can use. There are at least three other warglaive models that NPCs use. The bare-bones one. The Blood Elves' orange ones. And the Twilight warglaives. Also the Silvermoon Guardians one, which would make four.

A. This offers a few possibilities for racial/factional glaives to be added for a DH class.
B. Demonstrates that warglaives are not just a DH weapon in WoW, in case seeing warriors, rogues, DKs, and monks allowed to equip the most famous pair wasn't convincing enough.

[But I Hate You All]

Demon Hunters should "turn" their weapons into WGs. They copy all the stats and add / subtract certain stats. For example if your a tank Int turns into Stamina

That would be pretty sick

[checking facts]

GC plays tinker

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...95801517076480

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

GC plays tinker

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...95801517076480

Those replies.

[Redcrow]

They should just make a class called "evil stopper" and have one spec be demon hunter, one spec be dark ranger and one spec be tinker to end all this debate.