Item Squish Confirmed

[itemsquish]

Sure, all 6 million subs WoW lost since mid WotLK are due the higher than vanilla numbers..

either say what you're trying to say or go away. i'm not a girl and i'm not gay, i don't do passive aggressive

[Trubo]

what old world bosses, they removed nearly every single one of them. the mop bosses weren't gonna be solo'd by 99% of the population at 95 anyway.
but if people cry enough they'll have an aura that buffs you too i'm sure

a flawless implementation means a linear squish and inability to solo old raids. that's flawless and screams 'we are taking our mmo back'
the buff screams 'we still think all our ideas have been great and that the 4.4 million people who left were hardcore and stuff'
the people this buff will appeal to are the ones who do stuff and get bored and leave to the tune of 6400 people per day

At 95 the only world boss that would be impossible to solo that's currently live is Sha of Anger due to his Mind Control mechanic, probably in heroic dungeon gear available at 95. Protection Paladins (possibly Brewmasters) have already soloed Galleon; wouldn't be surprised if Nalak has been soloed by them as well. Only thing really stopping most tanks from doing Nalak is that he'll cast Storm Cloud on his main target if there aren't any other targets available to cast on.

Edit: DKs would have already killed Galleon by now if their Active Mitigation scaled with vengeance like all the other tanks.

[Melchior]

Honestly I don't see how its feasible. To perform a squish you'd have to squish everything from level 60 upwards (pre 60 will likely be okay as those where the days when everything was not so large). Now imagine the effect to apply that squish to every mob and every item and just how many times you'll get it wrong think how annoying it would be to turn up in a lvl 90 area and get one shotted by that mob or mob ability they forgot. Now to correct any mistakes they have to be applying fixes left right and centre. This is all before they start on new content which if squished would ultimately leave class balancing in a very difficult position as a nerf today might cost you a few thousand dps but that not really a problem given the large numbers but a nerf in the squish world would leave very little margin for error and ultimately would make balancing more difficult especially between pvp and pve mechanics. As I see it its doomed to failure as it'll be to complicated so they'll talk about it, try it and then when next expansion rolls out we'll all find no sign of it.

I would normally agree, except Ghostcrawler already stated that they had it working in an interview:

So we had this all in and working. We squished everything, and it was working. We had the whole thing implemented, and we sat down and tried it out, and, you know, Mortal Strike hit for 200, and Fireball hit for 150, and we were like, “This feels wrong.” We knew exactly how it would feel like, and we knew that our damage as a percentage didn’t go down, but it felt terrible. And we were like, “Okay, this is now super risky”, because we’re going to change talent trees on players, and even though we think it’s a great design, and we think players will love it, it’s a hard sell. And to do that, and have them hit really wimpy, I think even if players understood why we did it, deep down they wouldn’t like it.

So we decided to back off of that. We’re trying the solution with commas, and K’s, and M’s, and to be honest, it helps a lot, and our hope is, by 6.0 or 7.0, players are demanding the item squish, and by then it’s not controversial at all. It’s like a celebration when we finally do it.

[itemsquish]

No, that means changing how the entire gear/stat mechanic works in the game. Gear has ALWAYS been exponential in this game, except up to level 60, even at level 60 it was that way. (ilvl 60ish in MC and 90 in Naxx)

1-60 wasn't exponential, there was 1 formula for greens, 1 for blues and 1 for epics. raid gear continued this linear progression (without a level progression) hence the hook on the graphs

there was a shift in ilvl budget for bc, the old formula was no longer used and ilvls rose slightly higher between levels. there was progression of gear within a level that never existed but this just led to inflation in raid tiers, which blew up the next expansion, etc

your statement is complete horseshit

[Daws]

I'll also add in I really don't want to revisit the dark days when every raid was filled with morons crying bout dps/heal tables every 2 minutes and with a squish they'll be back as they'll be far less forgiveness in boss fights for dps/healing and that will drive more people away (i trust everyone remembers the guys who could stop linking dps meters every 5 minutes and having a go at anyone they said wasn't good enough). My vote leave the squish alone it's just a massive argument that I don't think WoW needs and honestly it really would feel less epic if we go from killing bosses with 500mill health down to 200k between expansions.

[Pugbot]

It's about time. I'm not sure exactly how they'll do it, but it could be as simple as cutting all numeric values by 90%. It'll still take as many whacks to kill things, but the numbers will be easier to manage.

Probably not as simple as just reducing the numeric value of everything by 90%. There will be some balance issues surely but its nothing that can't be worked out as usual.
I look forward to the squish.
Numbers become a big blur on the screen when you're bursting, especially annoying for PvP I think. Hard to tell the difference between a 107,500 hit and a 175,000 hit.
Sounds like the whiners are already out in force though about this. "Old content will still be soloable" "ZOMG DON'T TAKE AWAY OLD CONTENT SOLOING"

[itemsquish]

At 95 the only world boss that would be impossible to solo that's currently live is Sha of Anger due to his Mind Control mechanic, probably in heroic dungeon gear available at 95. Protection Paladins (possibly Brewmasters) have already soloed Galleon; wouldn't be surprised if Nalak has been soloed by them as well. Only thing really stopping most tanks from doing Nalak is that he'll cast Storm Cloud on his main target if there aren't any other targets available to cast on.

you realize that most 90s can't solo heroic 25m LK even though it's 2 expansions old?
world bosses are tuned for 40 people at a certain ilvl, raegwyn solo'd the sha of fear in ToES but he is nowhere close to soloing galleon

40 man bosses hit harder and more damage goes out, the assumption is there are more healers to handle it

- - - Updated - - -

I'll also add in I really don't want to revisit the dark days when every raid was filled with morons crying bout dps/heal tables every 2 minutes and with a squish they'll be back as they'll be far less forgiveness in boss fights for dps/healing and that will drive more people away (i trust everyone remembers the guys who could stop linking dps meters every 5 minutes and having a go at anyone they said wasn't good enough). My vote leave the squish alone it's just a massive argument that I don't think WoW needs and honestly it really would feel less epic if we go from killing bosses with 500mill health down to 200k between expansions.

that kind of shit won't be affected at all. that's relative and if you don't have it now, you won't have it later. each dps is expected to contribute a certain % and after a squish he will, current content isn't gonna be different except for the size of the numbers

old content will be affected for soloing but they already want to give you a buff to keep it soloable i guess

[Trubo]

you realize that most 90s can't solo heroic 25m LK even though it's 2 expansions old?
world bosses are tuned for 40 people at a certain ilvl, raegwyn solo'd the sha of fear in ToES but he is nowhere close to soloing galleon

40 man bosses hit harder and more damage goes out, the assumption is there are more healers to handle it

Actually I have seen reports/logs of every class but Rogues having soloed Heroic 25 LK and Rogues will kill it next tier assuming buffs to Recuperate happen. It's mostly a gear issue. For some classes it's easier (min ilvl DK and Paladin is about 490 with lots of Vengeance cheesing, min ilvl of a Mage is 550).

As for Ragewyn's kill of Sha of Fear I wouldn't consider that a true solo kill; he needed a group of people to push Heroic Sha of Fear to 50% to get the Haste buff, then switched to normal. Not saying it isn't doable but I wouldn't give Ragewyn credit for the first kill.

[Dormie]

I agree with you, I hate the squish as much as anyone, but I doubt they're doing it just to have something to do.

Item squish is basically like. I came home in my Ferrari. Parked it in the driveway. Went to bed. Next morning I wake up. Instead of a Ferrari, now I have a pinto.

It does the same job, but it's not nearly as awesome.

Except it was a Pinto the whole time, you just thought it was a Ferrari.

No.. This will NOT be nice.... My god, once again being grouped up with people that say that can tank, but are in Unholy presence or the one that says that can heal and is Elemental specced.

No, Just no. As long as I can solo my quests / raids then I'm fine with it, if it forces me to group with others outside of normal raids or instances.... no thanks.

And this is the loser mentality that has shit all over this game. Your playing the wrong game.

[El_Diabl0]

Wait you are mad that people will still be able to solo what they can solo now?

No. But it was Blizzard's bad decisions that made old raids so easy. And now, in order to fix it without upsetting the players who don't want things to change they're going to do something even worse.

I'm not saying that old raids being easy is the problem, the problem is the discrepancy in player power as they level up. Things should be more linear. I always thought it was very stupid how a 80 player could one hit a level 79, and in some cases even a level 80 player. And it's even worse now.

Also, since they're always looking to optimize network traffic and packet size it does affect the game in other ways than just player perception.

[Sarnus]

I think this is so needed. Seeing these crazy numbers is rediculous, I'd rather 6k be the 'Omg you're amazing' DPS rather than something crazy like the 200k+ we see now.

[Asmekiel]

either say what you're trying to say or go away. i'm not a girl and i'm not gay, i don't do passive aggressive

I've already done that, but all you care about is the removal of soloing old content.

I think this is so needed. Seeing these crazy numbers is rediculous, I'd rather 6k be the 'Omg you're amazing' DPS rather than something crazy like the 200k+ we see now.

If you don't get compliments anymore, you obviously don't do enough DPS

[Rizendragon]

I'll also add in I really don't want to revisit the dark days when every raid was filled with morons crying bout dps/heal tables every 2 minutes and with a squish they'll be back as they'll be far less forgiveness in boss fights for dps/healing and that will drive more people away (i trust everyone remembers the guys who could stop linking dps meters every 5 minutes and having a go at anyone they said wasn't good enough). My vote leave the squish alone it's just a massive argument that I don't think WoW needs and honestly it really would feel less epic if we go from killing bosses with 500mill health down to 200k between expansions.

You haven't been in LFR lately have you?

[Orange Joe]

If you don't get compliments anymore, you obviously don't do enough DPS

He never said he isn't getting them. He said he would rather get them while doing 6k instead of 200k.

[Sarnus]

He never said he isn't getting them. He said he would rather get them while doing 6k instead of 200k.

Indeed, I do get compliments on the DPS a lot of the time lol. But, I still hate to see the crazy high numbers. I mean, I hit normally with my Eclipsed wrath for 100k+. That's stupid imo.

[Deleted]

Be smart.

I can already see blizzard changing hp numbers of all creatures in the databases, all the spell damage numbers, all the items, etc.
And they will get TONS of whining from players who won't be able to kill old bosses or that lowlevel levelling is broken.

You don't need any of this.

All you really need to do is an interface option "squish the displayed numbers".
From that point your client will automatically convert all the numbers received from server to some other numbers, based on squish scale.
For players lvl95-100 it will be just the same number, divided by 1000. 600k HP ->600, 20k white hit ->20. 150k yellow crit -->150.
3 digits is the absolute optimum number to display your damage.

People who like squished numbers will use it, people who don't like it will be able to see their millions.

Problem solved, balance untouched, minimum effort required.

Best solution ever, i'd love that.
Please forward to NA blizzard forums.
I wouldn't have a problem at all with a pure numbers reroll at the start of a new addon, as long as my relative power stays the same.

Numberwise low level mobs would shrink in HP, but that feels about right anyway.
Damage received below "1" isn't worth displaying anyway, and HP < "1" could be displayed as 1 regardless. (its a onehit, so differences don't matter)

Combat log could still offer the raw values to allow correct logging and provide addons with sufficient data, and in game experience wouldn't be that bloated.

Noone cares if they have 520467 or 520832 Life, the meaningless decimals are just distracting.
And 6 to 7 figure damage numbers become hard to easily catch for the same reason.

[Rennegadelawlz]

Blizzard said near the end of cata that the item squish if it ever took place wouldn't be so drastically squished, you guys are talking like they are gonna put numbers back to vanilla, how I read it was blizz was going to do an item squish so that way the scaling from wrath to cata then to mist wasnt like hitting a wall on the line graph but simple making it a steady climb up a hill.

[RoKPaNda]

See the smart people have been saying all along that it wouldn't have any impact on soloing old content, and today Blizz confirmed that. All this worry over nothing.

[Rexxr]

Item squish is happening, YES!

It will be a % squish starting on monster around level 55.

The whole idea is you will still be able to solo, and you will be having like 10k health in the next expansion instead of 1 Million which would be dumb.

[Resentful]

Item squish is happening, YES!

It will be a % squish starting on monster around level 55.

The whole idea is you will still be able to solo, and you will be having like 10k health in the next expansion instead of 1 Million which would be dumb.

Not even remotely confirmed -.-