Bradley Manning verdict.

[Fullmetal89]

What of the literally hundreds of thousands of classified reports he leaked that have nothing even remotely illegal in them? Even if you have an argument that a couple things he leaked were illegal activities, it was the broad brush, release of everything that was criminal.

Wouldn't the act of leaking classified reports make it illegal. I mean if they were legal, there wouldn't be a reason to leak them.

[Skroe]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War_documents_leak

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_War_documents_leak

Both which showed basically nothing other than undercounting of civilian casualities, which is not a war crime? Like have you read those? They ironically MAKE the case for US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq (at the time), rather than undercut it.

Like I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here? I really think you're hoping there is something there that there isn't.

[Matchles]

Yes but idiocy or ignorance of the law isn't a defence.

He aided the enemy, even if indirectly.

Ignorance can negate an element of the crime. If they couldn't prove actual aid, they had to prove he knowingly intended to aid. That is he had actual knowledge that the information could aid the enemy and his actions were done with the intent to do so.

[Deleted]

Seems to be terrible logic. Sometimes we do things that inadvertently help our enemies but should we be tried for that? I don't think so. I still want to know what the hell he released. Yes he released classified documents, Snowden did that to but the content to me is a bigger concern right now.

Manning's release wasn't particularly damaging, but it could have been catastrophic. The fact is that he didn't read what he released and he released hundreds of thousands of potentially damaging documents instead of just releasing the pertinent information about the 'crimes'.

[Kellhound]

This is ridiculous. We deserve an open government, and not one that commits crimes around the world. If you defend secrecy, then you're defending the criminal military and the criminal political class. Information yearns to be free.

Really, this is fucking sick. Think about it: throwing someone into a brutal cage for a century and people are okay with it just because he released diplomatic wires and information that *may* (but probably wasn't) used to predict military strats/targets. Too bad he didn't leak something truly damaging, because america deserves a taste of it's own medicine for once. Goddess, I just can't stomach being an american any longer.

It's always easy to say nothing should be secret when one doesnt know what the secrets are. Many things are classified not because of what they are, but simply the fact they are know. For example, a report classified top secret that just details the phone conversation between a foreign general from his office with his wife about dinner. What's worthy about that being classified top secret? Surely dinner plans are not so important, right? Correct. It is the face we have tapped the phone line that is classified.

[Deleted]

Both which showed basically nothing other than undercounting of civilian casualities, which is not a war crime? Like have you read those? They ironically MAKE the case for US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq (at the time), rather than undercut it.

Like I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here? I really think you're hoping there is something there that there isn't.

It doesn't matter. He had no idea what he was releasing. It could have been massively damaging.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Manning's release wasn't particularly damaging, but it could have been catastrophic. The fact is that he didn't read what he released and he released hundreds of thousands of potentially damaging documents instead of just releasing the pertinent information about the 'crimes'.

So he's admitted he didn't really read what he released.

[Venant]

Good, I have no time for traitors.

Should we prosecute the soldiers that were clearly slaughtering civilians and journalists in the leaked video that Manning released? Please tell me that you don't want an army full of William Calleys running around committing mass murder out there. Oh yeah, and it is ironic that Manning has already served more time than Calley did for the My Lai massacre.

[Matchles]

Wouldn't the act of leaking classified reports make it illegal. I mean if they were legal, there wouldn't be a reason to leak them.

I was speaking to the content of the reports. People are claiming Manning was a whistleblower because he leaked illegal activities of the U.S. gov't when the vast majority of things leaked nothing illegal.

[Deleted]

So he's admitted he didn't really read what he released.

It's not said anywhere, but there's no way he read over a quarter of a million documents.

[Mayhem]

Both which showed basically nothing other than undercounting of civilian casualities, which is not a war crime? Like have you read those? They ironically MAKE the case for US involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq (at the time), rather than undercut it.

Like I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here? I really think you're hoping there is something there that there isn't.

or torture, or killing civilians... no war crimes if you don´t count them, of course not

"yeah uhm we killed some civilians here" "why then let´s don´t call them civilians" "actually, that would work"

[Deleted]

Should we prosecute the soldiers that were clearly slaughtering civilians and journalists in the leaked video that Manning released? Please tell me that you don't want an army full of William Calleys running around committing mass murder out there. Oh yeah, and it is ironic that Manning has already served more time than Calley did for the My Lai massacre.

You won't find many people arguing against leaking THAT. What you will find MOST people find despicable is that he leaked a quarter of a million classified documents that didn't pertain to the actual information that should have been public knowledge.

[Deleted]

He will probably still get life in prison...

[Venant]

It doesn't matter. He had no idea what he was releasing. It could have been massively damaging.

The crimes that the government was attempting to cover up were already pretty damaging, you know, to the people who were killed. Are you arguing that the government has some special right to cover up war crimes? You could also argue that when the government is acting in such blatant disregard of the 'law' it no long has any right to its 'privacy', the same way we put any other criminal under a microscope. Surely you are not arguing that we need to allow the government to turn everything into a classified document so that they can do away with our system of checks and balances?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You won't find many people arguing against leaking THAT. What you will find MOST people find despicable is that he leaked a quarter of a million classified documents that didn't pertain to the actual information that should have been public knowledge.

That's more so what I mean. I care about the bad stuff he released. I'm more so ok with that.

[Tierbook]

The crimes that the government was attempting to cover up were already pretty damaging, you know, to the people who were killed. Are you arguing that the government has some special right to cover up war crimes? You could also argue that when the government is acting in such blatant disregard of the 'law' it no long has any right to its 'privacy', the same way we put any other criminal under a microscope. Surely you are not arguing that we need to allow the government to turn everything into a classified document so that they can do away with our system of checks and balances?

the system of checks and balances is meant to keep each arm of the government in check so that one does not have control over the others NOT so that other nations can hold us in a court of law

[Deleted]

The crimes that the government was attempting to cover up were already pretty damaging, you know, to the people who were killed. Are you arguing that the government has some special right to cover up war crimes? You could also argue that when the government is acting in such blatant disregard of the 'law' it no long has any right to its 'privacy', the same way we put any other criminal under a microscope. Surely you are not arguing that we need to allow the government to turn everything into a classified document so that they can do away with our system of checks and balances?

I don't know how many times I need to say it... but yes, his actions were commendable so far as releasing the actions against civilians and the like. There needs to be a spotlight on that and the public deserve their time to express their anger at their elected officials.

What I don't agree with is the fact that instead of just releasing that, he blindly released a quarter of a million documents that could have caused catastrophic damage. The fact that they didn't doesn't make it okay.

[Deleted]

Should we prosecute the soldiers that were clearly slaughtering civilians and journalists in the leaked video that Manning released? Please tell me that you don't want an army full of William Calleys running around committing mass murder out there. Oh yeah, and it is ironic that Manning has already served more time than Calley did for the My Lai massacre.

Absolutely they should be punished, I saw the video and they clearly breached the rules of engagement. Manning was right to expose this, but he was not in the right to expose thousands of other documents that gave out patrol information, timetables and the names of undercover informants. He put peoples lives at risk because he did not read all of the shit he released, he just dumped as much as possible.

[Deleted]

Absolutely they should be punished, I saw the video and they clearly breached the rules of engagement. Manning was right to expose this, but he was not in the right to expose thousands of other documents that gave out patrol information, timetables and the names of undercover informants. He put peoples lives at risk because he did not read all of the shit he released, he just dumped as much as possible.

This. He may have been a hero in some sense of the word, but he very quickly became a textbook traitor.

[Skroe]

or torture, or killing civilians... no war crimes if you don´t count them, of course not

"yeah uhm we killed some civilians here" "why then let´s don´t call them civilians" "actually, that would work"

Like, this is an incredibly dishonest statement you've made here.

Take the 700 Civilians killed at checkpoints. Let's do some math. How many years were we in Iraq in 2010? 7 years. How many checkpoints did we have in the country? Thousands. How many cars passed through these US / Iraqi check points every day? Millions. And over 7 years and these millions of cars, you're telling me that less than 700 of them not reading the repeated signs that said to stop, not slowing down despite the fact that everyone knew about them, and then US soldiers being forced to defend themselves (car could be a car bomb, remember) by opening fire is a war crime? I call it a tragedy. But the US Military had done everything in its power for each of those incidents by virtue of the signs, public information, and Iraqi officers who approached cars, to inform civilians to stop.

If you count that as a war crime, it's defining down war crime.