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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I'd argue that Darkseid could beat the Q. During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, there was a being called the Anti-Monitor, (the Monitor of the negative energy universe) that launched an all out assault on the multiverse. The DC universe was composed of an infinite number of universes, and the Anti-Monitor blew up all but 5 of them. Yes, he subtracted from infinity and got a whole number.

    Anyway, God, (like, the literal Christian god) got annoyed at the Anti-Monitor fucking up his multiverse, so he sent the Spectre, (God's wrath and vengeance given form) and the Spectre, fully empowered by God, punched the Anti-Monitor in the face and the shockwave from this was so powerful it shattered dimensions and was felt throughout the remaining cosmos including heaven and the Fourth World. The Spectre was put into a death-like state from the backlash. The Anti-Monitor was knocked out for a couple of minutes, afterwards, he was totally fine.

    Later in the story, when the Anti-Monitor was about to win and wipe out all of reality, Darkseid, having come to the realization that the destruction of reality would kill him too, decides to intervene. All the way from his throne on Apokolips, in a different dimension, he fired his Omega Beams and almost completely destroyed the Anti-Monitor's body, weakening him enough that Superman, (the one from Earth 2, the really weak one from 1939-1956) was able to finish him off in one punch.

    Darkseid is powerful enough to effortlessly defeat an entity capable of wiping out reality itself, an entity that God himself couldn't destroy even by fully empowering his avatar. Yes, that makes close to zero sense at like 10 points, but hey, that's DC for you.

    Only thing i can say is Q is Q and there are many of them.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Ciddy's Avatar
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    I thought of the Q Continuum from Star Trek first when I read this title. It's been a while, but I seem to remember that they had God-like powers and could manipulate pretty much anything.

    I'm not really sure you could call them "villianous" though, because if they truly were, they could've just vaporized all the good guys and ended it. They were just curious about mortal affairs and thought it was fun to dick around with Picard and crew. I remember one episode where Picard actually outsmarted Q on a bet.
    Last edited by Ciddy; 2013-08-02 at 03:22 PM.

  3. #23
    The Patient Sharde's Avatar
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    http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/New_Gods_%28New_Earth%29

    Darkseid alone could solo the 40k universe.
    read the article and searched some wikia sites for darkseid. not really impressed. the new gods are not immune against bullets ands sword. they are just immortal and super strong. and just like pretty much everyone in the marvel and dc universe they have genius level intellect. warhammer chaos has legions of those kinds. tzeentchs followers alone match those criteria.

    if the wikia sites on darksides are not missing some major points i would say they would fail. completely.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharde View Post
    read the article and searched some wikia sites for darkseid. not really impressed. the new gods are not immune against bullets ands sword. they are just immortal and super strong. and just like pretty much everyone in the marvel and dc universe they have genius level intellect. warhammer chaos has legions of those kinds. tzeentchs followers alone match those criteria.

    if the wikia sites on darksides are not missing some major points i would say they would fail. completely.
    Darkseid is a LOT stronger than a typical new god. Darkseid is also a very unique character, because the writers have stated that he is unaffected by continuity changes, yet his power and knowledge appears to ebb and flow as if he is. But then there's other times where he has knowledge that he shouldn't based on just his experiences in that continuity. And the only time he's ever come close to dying permanently in all realities he quite literally showed off more power than God. I think he's a massive troll and doesn't fight seriously 99% of the time. The first time Superman and Darkseid ever met, Darkseid thought Clark was a normal human, because he literally overpowered him so badly in strength and speed that Darkseid didn't notice the difference. And that was pre crisis Superman, the one that could drag planets around and fly from one end of the galaxy to the other in minutes without breaking a sweat.

    Typical New Gods are fairly strong from what I've seen though. They're typically immune to things like normal bullets, (though their own weapons are effective) and they seem to have about a "pick up a truck and swing it" level of strength.

    The wiki does leave out a lot of major points, for example, "It is generally accepted that Darkseid is sufficiently strong to lift 100 tons with minimal effort and is among the universe's strongest beings." is an insane understatement. Superman can lift 66.6 quintillion tons with minimal effort. When straining, he can lift over 5 sextillion tons. Darkseid is stronger, and it's likely we've never seen the true limits of his strength.

    This statement, "However, Darkseid can't run or move nearly as fast as speeders like Superman or the Flash." is false. His combat speed is sufficient to keep up with and even outmatch Superman's fastest incarnations, which move faster than light. You will never see Darkseid run after somebody, not because he can't but because he considers running beneath him. He can always just Omega Beam them, fly after them, or if he's serious, teleport. Because he can teleport anywhere in the cosmos, except Heaven, because God says fuck you.

    He also has matter manipulation powers. If he really felt like it, he could just think most people out of existence. Also, his intellect isn't really genius level. He's literally outsmarted God before. If you want an example of that, look up "Soul Fire Formula Darkseid".
    Last edited by Laurcus; 2013-08-02 at 07:12 AM.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Darkseid is a ...
    DC equivalent of Son Goku (孫 悟空) but Evil. ie Ultimate Marty Stu.

    But...the Thread is "Most powerful villianous alien race?" Not "Most Over-powerful villianous alien Character?" So when thinking of the New Gods or even Saiyans, they were strong but Meh, A full Chapter of Space Marines lead by an Inquisitor could take them out. So yah we have examples of overpowered beings all over fiction, but the races they come from are usually not anywhere near absurd power levels. Take Kryptonians, ungodly powerful near our Star (the Sun) but in their home system they are just like any human, only with advanced technology. To measure the Power of a Race you need to test them on their home turf and frankly most are not that strong.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    DC equivalent of Son Goku (孫 悟空) but Evil. ie Ultimate Marty Stu.

    But...the Thread is "Most powerful villianous alien race?" Not "Most Over-powerful villianous alien Character?" So when thinking of the New Gods or even Saiyans, they were strong but Meh, A full Chapter of Space Marines lead by an Inquisitor could take them out. So yah we have examples of overpowered beings all over fiction, but the races they come from are usually not anywhere near absurd power levels. Take Kryptonians, ungodly powerful near our Star (the Sun) but in their home system they are just like any human, only with advanced technology. To measure the Power of a Race you need to test them on their home turf and frankly most are not that strong.
    Just because they're not typical for their species doesn't mean they shouldn't be counted. I agree regular Saiyans weren't that strong, (though a few super elites like Nappa may be too much for a chapter of Space Marines) I think typical Apokoliptian forces are stronger than you think though. Darkseid has nearly limitless Parademons, so in a war, even without getting directly involved, he could send out enough Parademons to match the Space Marine chapter in numbers. Parademons are mooks. They're not that smart, they're not that strong, (a regular person could probably take one out with a baseball bat if they got the drop on it) but the weapons they carry are so advanced they can actually hurt Superman, at least a little bit. Send an equal size force of Parademons against the Space Marines, with one of Darkseid's generals, such as Kalibak, (Superman level strength and overall fighting ability) commanding the forces, and I don't think things would go well for the Space Marines.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  7. #27
    Legendary! Reg's Avatar
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Just because they're not typical for their species doesn't mean they shouldn't be counted. I agree regular Saiyans weren't that strong, (though a few super elites like Nappa may be too much for a chapter of Space Marines) I think typical Apokoliptian forces are stronger than you think though. Darkseid has nearly limitless Parademons, so in a war, even without getting directly involved, he could send out enough Parademons to match the Space Marine chapter in numbers. Parademons are mooks. They're not that smart, they're not that strong, (a regular person could probably take one out with a baseball bat if they got the drop on it) but the weapons they carry are so advanced they can actually hurt Superman, at least a little bit. Send an equal size force of Parademons against the Space Marines, with one of Darkseid's generals, such as Kalibak, (Superman level strength and overall fighting ability) commanding the forces, and I don't think things would go well for the Space Marines.
    Not typical for a species is exactly why they should not be counted. Otherwise this will become another Goku vs Darkseid thread. Because we all know that the writers of both fictions went overboard and made these character so impossibly powerful that they can be counted as Absurd Characters.

    Take Watchmen, Doctor Manhattan is as powerful as a Goku/Darkseid do we count humans now as the almighty race? No, because Doctor Manhattan is a one off over-powerful god born out of the Human Race, Goku is the same, the writers of Dragonball Z/GT (and that even more awful new one) just like to see how over the top powerful they can go. Darkseid was made to be able to challenge Superman who has over time become the uber Marty Stu of all of DC, they had to come up with villains to match his power level and even exceed him. This is why Darkseid, Apocolypse and a couple other were born, DC always opts to go more powerful rather than come up with a good story.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    This question can be answered by the Kardashev Scale.

    The answer is, anything in category 4. Any race or entity that can redefine the universe in a way that makes you dead or non-exist, wins.
    Ori, Startrek Q, Timelords, various gods and all that mess.

    Alternatively, any beings made of anti-matter. The results of first contact would wipe out solar systems. Though I'm not sure that would qualify as villainous as much as accidental.

    I enjoy the more subtle villainous races. Like the silence. Any half-assed xenomorph wannabe can pose a threat to humanity. It takes a little more skill to do something with that power.
    Most important thing I got from that is Star Wars could beat Star Trek.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Lets say you have a two 3 inch lines. One is all red and the other is 48% red and 52% blue. Does that mean there's a 50-50 chance they're both red or is the second line matching the all red line by 48%?
    ^^^ Wells using an analogy

  10. #30
    Pit Lord Mifuyne's Avatar
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    The Anti-Spirals.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    Not typical for a species is exactly why they should not be counted. Otherwise this will become another Goku vs Darkseid thread. Because we all know that the writers of both fictions went overboard and made these character so impossibly powerful that they can be counted as Absurd Characters.

    Take Watchmen, Doctor Manhattan is as powerful as a Goku/Darkseid do we count humans now as the almighty race? No, because Doctor Manhattan is a one off over-powerful god born out of the Human Race, Goku is the same, the writers of Dragonball Z/GT (and that even more awful new one) just like to see how over the top powerful they can go. Darkseid was made to be able to challenge Superman who has over time become the uber Marty Stu of all of DC, they had to come up with villains to match his power level and even exceed him. This is why Darkseid, Apocolypse and a couple other were born, DC always opts to go more powerful rather than come up with a good story.
    Well, the reason your comparison falters is that there's lot of different human species. There's humans in real life, humans in Star Trek, humans in DC, humans in DBZ, etc. No, if you want to compare the humans from Watchmen to the humans from real life, I would maybe count Doctor Manhattan, except for one other difference that you're ignoring. Factions. Doctor Manhattan is human, but he's not necessarily aligned with human interests. Darkseid is a new god, but he's also the leader of the Apokoliptian faction, so it's plausible that he'd get involved in a war that involves his people. Doctor Manhattan would just tell us to fuck off if we got in trouble and asked for his help.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  12. #32
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Daleks... or.. A pack of Xenomorphs. Or, the Zerg - but not the ones under control. The feral zergs, killing anything to get stronger till there is no more to kill to gain power from, going into a slumber and letting others start killing till in the end - two powerful ones are there, and start killing each other.

    What is worst? An alien attacker you can understand, or the one you can't? I mean, a Xeno kills anyone on a territory of theirs and breed so fast.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Well, the reason your comparison falters is that there's lot of different human species. There's humans in real life, humans in Star Trek, humans in DC, humans in DBZ, etc. No, if you want to compare the humans from Watchmen to the humans from real life, I would maybe count Doctor Manhattan, except for one other difference that you're ignoring. Factions. Doctor Manhattan is human, but he's not necessarily aligned with human interests. Darkseid is a new god, but he's also the leader of the Apokoliptian faction, so it's plausible that he'd get involved in a war that involves his people. Doctor Manhattan would just tell us to fuck off if we got in trouble and asked for his help.
    And that is why counting deities in a Alien Race battle doesn't work. because somewhere out there is always someone more powerful, more mary sue, marty stu.

    For that matter Star Trek had 3 humans gain full deity status, and though out fiction we always find human to deity status popping up.

    I could list out a bunch of planet eating galaxy destroying overpowered beings. Many come from comic books and Anime. I mean the Anti-Spiral can use Galaxies as weapons... of course the heroes did the same.

    For the main subject individuals of extreme power can not be counted, you must use the mean power level of the race. Which puts Daleks and Xenomorphs near the top. For different reasons.

  14. #34
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    Sorry but the vogons take the bait as the most indifferent villains ever.



    "They are one of the most unpleasant races in the Galaxy. Not actually evil, but bad-tempered, bureaucratic, officious and callous. They wouldn't even lift a finger to save their own grandmothers from the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal without orders - signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. The best way to get a drink out of a Vogon is to stick your finger down his throat, and the best way to irritate him is to feed his grandmother to the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. On no account should you allow a Vogon to read poetry at you."

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Gothicshark View Post
    And that is why counting deities in a Alien Race battle doesn't work. because somewhere out there is always someone more powerful, more mary sue, marty stu.

    For that matter Star Trek had 3 humans gain full deity status, and though out fiction we always find human to deity status popping up.

    I could list out a bunch of planet eating galaxy destroying overpowered beings. Many come from comic books and Anime. I mean the Anti-Spiral can use Galaxies as weapons... of course the heroes did the same.

    For the main subject individuals of extreme power can not be counted, you must use the mean power level of the race. Which puts Daleks and Xenomorphs near the top. For different reasons.
    Why? You just quoted me and said that without explaining how you arrived at the conclusion. Darkseid also isn't any more of a deity than anyone else of his race. They're all new gods, Darkseid is just the most powerful one.

    And if you want to talk about average power of races, I'd argue that the Celestials from Marvel are the top. 2 Billion strong, an average one is more powerful than Odin.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  16. #36
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  17. #37
    The Flood. They almost wiped out the entire universe, twice.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digory Kirke View Post
    The Flood. They almost wiped out the entire universe, twice.
    I dunno, I still think the Flood would be unable to infect a Dalek as the parasites wouldn't get through the hardened Dalekanium armor.

    Besides, don't the Flood require a host with a spine? Do Daleks even have spines? They've always looked rather squishy when they open up.

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  19. #39
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    Various races in the warhammer 40k universe.

    The Orks: Basically the entire race has only one thought, and that is when the next fight.
    Dark Eldar: Need I say anything here? Just a bunch of Sadistic Elder bent on torturing all the other races.
    Chaos: IF they can be considered aliens they would possibly top the charts here. You have Nurgle, whom is the prince of plagues (I think). Khorne who pretty much lives off the violence in the universe. Tzeench who is.... I honestly can't remember but I know its some evil magic stuff. and then Slaanech who is yet another sadist who enjoys orgies and raves.
    Necrons: Basically an entire races bent on killing everything living. What more evil can you get?
    Tyranids: A ton of flesh eating bugthings.... Need I say more?

    And then you got the 'Good' Guys:
    The Eldar who seemingly think all the younger races are ignorant children, the Imperium of Man which is lead by a skeleton sitting on a shiny chair, whom is followed by a bunch of xenophobic tin cans, claiming to acting out their emporers will. and then the Tau, who seemingly are 'good' in a way yet... I've not cared to much to find out what thier Greater Good is exactly and I am sure a friend told me that they got wiped out anyway by the Space Marines (another fine example off their ways).

    All in all... the warhammer 40k universe 'Good' is just a lie I reckon and all factions/races have some sorta dark pressance behind them all.

    You can correct me if I am wrong, I never really read too deeply into its lore.

  20. #40
    I am Murloc! Gothicshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    Why? You just quoted me and said that without explaining how you arrived at the conclusion. Darkseid also isn't any more of a deity than anyone else of his race. They're all new gods, Darkseid is just the most powerful one.

    And if you want to talk about average power of races, I'd argue that the Celestials from Marvel are the top. 2 Billion strong, an average one is more powerful than Odin.
    So in a discussion about alien races, and I say using deities is not something that should be counted, you respond by saying well he's not a god he's just a god. but the clear winner is a race of gods in the marvel universe. Sorry New Gods are deities every one of them. hence God being a important descriptor. Celestials are also a race of gods.

    and for the people not familiar with the Celestials "Referred to as "space gods" by the Eternals and the Deviants, the Celestials appear as silent, armored humanoids with an average height of 2,000 feet (610 m)" - wikipedia

    Sorry try again this time not using a comic book race of Gods.

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