People always say WoW PvP is bad so what has good PvP?

[Valeron]

I can accept some rng in damage modifiers and such. But to take out the ability to hit a target from the players hand is just bad. Coming from an FPS background I just can't accept that.

[kail]

I can accept some rng in damage modifiers and such. But to take out the ability to hit a target from the players hand is just bad. Coming from an FPS background I just can't accept that.

As someone who plays hold 'em at least once a week, I've dealt with bigger bullshit RNG. WoW didn't have a hit issue after the gear was acquired anyways. I can imagine tab targeting just isn't for you at all if FPS is the basis for a good PvP game.

[Gandrake]

As someone who plays hold 'em at least once a week, I've dealt with bigger bullshit RNG.

Then you didn't play a Warrior in Cataclysm. =P

[Fencers]

No really, when gear stats determine the ability to hit a target, it's a terrible pvp game.

Nah, that's not really true.

I might define the parameters of my game such that aiming isn't an aspect of mastery. And that is perfectly valid as a design choice. Whether it is an effective design choice objectively is a matter purely based on rules and conflicts.

The only "can'ts" and "do nots" from a design perspective are based on technology [We just can't build a game like that, Billy!] or those that are conflict. In video games conflicting rules cancel each other out most often- conflicts sorta can't exist most of the time. Which leaves, in such cases, only conflicting rules of play.

[inboundpaper]

Swotor had it good for a while, then they mucked it up.

[Deleted]

Swotor had it good for a while, then they mucked it up.

I loved star wars warzones, they were fun. If they didnt put restriction to warzone participation with f2p model I would play the game. But now I wont until that happen, which it wont... seems like people are pleased enough with f2p as it is... rest already decided they wont return.
I also liked the idea they had with rated warzones, that would have competitive play and progression... either solo or as team. That was 1 year+ ago, and as far as I understand, no nothing happened in that field. So... seems like it's just le crap totally now.

[Tokas]

I saw several people mentioning too many abilities, and I must agree, I can see them balancing stuff to perfection in a game like Dota 2 or LoL, but when you character has 20 more or less rotational skills, 10 situational, 10 cooldowns, 5 crowd controls and 10 more spells in your spellbook that nobody ever uses them - it's just impossible!

[Wildmoon]

I saw several people mentioning too many abilities, and I must agree, I can see them balancing stuff to perfection in a game like Dota 2 or LoL, but when you character has 20 more or less rotational skills, 10 situational, 10 cooldowns, 5 crowd controls and 10 more spells in your spellbook that nobody ever uses them - it's just impossible!

Dota2 and LoL's balance are far from perfect. The reason it's ok because you could always choose heroes to counter others. There are a lot of heroes in Dota that fill the same role but they are just flat out better than others.

[RoninaThorstone]

Then you didn't play a Warrior in Cataclysm. =P

The ultimate RNG build was definitely ret pali in TBC. I took it a step further and used HoJ (prenerf) so I could instantly kill clothies. See, you could have your basic hit proc seal of command which was like double strike... And the basic hit and proc could both proc the HoJ trinket. And of course that is on top of crusader strike... There were many a time when on my first hit I struck 5 times using a storm herald, instantly killing the player.

[Nikkosyia]

I haven't dealt with PvP in WoW since Season 3. Gave up since than, and I take a quick tour each time something changes with resilience or BG's are added. I keep turning away after a week or two.

Aion PVP I've personally enjoyed. Same for GW2's.

Diablo 2's PvP was amazing (Outside of Town entrance camping...)

Shooter's, even though they are literally Player vs Player, I Don't consider them the same category of PvP as MMORPG's.

W:AR Before the servers where yanked, I really enjoyed their PvP.

I"m really interested in Blade N' Soul's PvP. Just wish the US Beta trials would begin so I can get a feel for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Dota2 and LoL's balance are far from perfect.

LoL, I don't play and can't stand playing.
DoTa2 though, Dragon Knight, Axman and Sniper are outrageously overpowered past Level 6.


SWTOR and RIFT PvP, I enjoyed. But it was one of those things I couldn't do for hours on end. Got boring really quick for periods of time. Could do it for an hour or two, but I would have to stop and PvE / grind around /Side quest /Alt-hop or I would just get bored.

[Eroginous]

WvW felt that way to me. The battleground style of pvp was quite fast paced but still seemed quite zergy.

I really enjoyed SWTOR PvP. Huttball is one of the most enjoyable pvp experiences I have ever had. To me it always felt like there was a reasonable balance among the classes in SWTOR, a couple were a bit strong at the start (troopers etc) but for the most part it was fairly even and you always had a good chance of winning.

SWTOR's battleground design is not much different than Wows. Huttball is basically WSG. The problem with SWTOR's pvp:

1. The combat lag inherently designed within their animations of class abilities. It makes it very slow and unresponsive at times when you need it most.

2. The lack of addons/macros to make up for the shortcomings of the stock UI. I don't mind so much the stock UI layout, but I can't bind modifiers to condense abilities with the stock UI and they don't allow Addons or macros, so it's frustrating to play even basic pvp.

3. Class balance really isn't there. Even if you somehow get used to the wonky scaling of players stats/levels, you can't overcome the disadvantage of lower level players against higher level players due to lack of talents/abilities. I suppose at max level things might be different, but you have to get to max level first.

Other than that, I can't really tell you what MMO has good pvp because I think they all fail at basic pvp principles.

[Frozenbeef]

i don't like gw2 pvp, you are restricted to a certain weapon/ build if you actually want to survive/ be able to kill kill stuff..such as elementalist staff is pretty much useless as your enemy has to stand in your dot, scepter is way too slow to deal consistent damage in a pvp situation which just leaves daggers however you need to use dagger/ dagger as people can easily just run away from you if you use dagger / focus. So all your "options" basically come down to a none negotiable set of 5 abilities.

Wow pvp is very good, you have the abilities to deal with any situation that comes to you, it's up to you use elarn to use the iright ones and to use them as effectively as possible.

I'm bewildered by how people say pvp is terrible in mmos like wow...it seems like people just want fps type pvp for everything where you just aim and shoot which is bland and boring , it's even sader that people are using the word "skill" as if mmo pvp is like a colouring book compared to other games -.-

[Nikkosyia]

it seems like people just want fps type pvp for everything where you just aim and shoot which is bland and boring , it's even sader that people are using the word "skill" as if mmo pvp is like a colouring book compared to other games -.-

Hunters totally are using aimbots. Shooting me through walls and sh*t. Bullets and arrows curving corners and in the air like some mystical JFK bullet. F*cking hackers everywhere.

[Eroginous]

I'm bewildered by how people say pvp is terrible in mmos like wow...

Because Blizzard has demonstrated how they do not know how to strike a balance when it comes to pvp in an MMO. In Cata max level pvp was about the best it had ever been, survivability was just right, lots of specs had CDs to avoid dying in a pinch, and there were clear differences in the strengths/weaknesses between specs.

In MoP, every class has 5 instant CCs which don't DR with each other and can literally kill your partner in a CC chain. Talent design favors some classes over others when it comes to pvp, and low level pvp is a joke. How do you expect people to make it to level 90 if they can't even stand the game at level 20?

Prot Warrior does more damage with Shield Slam at level 20 (instant attack every 6 seconds) than any other melee class can do after ramping up their damage and keeping time on target.

So when it comes to general balance in Wow, it's non existent. You have to play Wargames and make your own house rules in order to make things fair and balanced in Wow. If the developers did their job right, that wouldn't be the case.

[kail]

i don't like gw2 pvp, you are restricted to a certain weapon/ build if you actually want to survive/ be able to kill kill stuff..such as elementalist staff is pretty much useless as your enemy has to stand in your dot, scepter is way too slow to deal consistent damage in a pvp situation which just leaves daggers however you need to use dagger/ dagger as people can easily just run away from you if you use dagger / focus. So all your "options" basically come down to a none negotiable set of 5 abilities.

Ele I'll prob give you. D/D is/was just very strong. But it's fun as hell though, I mean that was stance dancing at its best. Warrior has a variety of builds depending on what you want to achieve (burst/sustain/support), same goes for most other classes. My one gripe on GW2 PvP is their stealth mechanics, just too stupid. I can literally troll around anybody as my thief alt and not have to worry about dying most of the time because of those flawless getaways.

[Sj]

Because Blizzard has demonstrated how they do not know how to strike a balance when it comes to pvp in an MMO. In Cata max level pvp was about the best it had ever been, survivability was just right, lots of specs had CDs to avoid dying in a pinch, and there were clear differences in the strengths/weaknesses between specs.

In MoP, every class has 5 instant CCs which don't DR with each other and can literally kill your partner in a CC chain. Talent design favors some classes over others when it comes to pvp, and low level pvp is a joke. How do you expect people to make it to level 90 if they can't even stand the game at level 20?

Prot Warrior does more damage with Shield Slam at level 20 (instant attack every 6 seconds) than any other melee class can do after ramping up their damage and keeping time on target.

So when it comes to general balance in Wow, it's non existent. You have to play Wargames and make your own house rules in order to make things fair and balanced in Wow. If the developers did their job right, that wouldn't be the case.

To be fair, WoW isn't hardly the first or worst when it comes to PvP imbalance.

[Vorality]

Neverwinter PvP is extremely fun for me and for the most part is completely balanced.

[BergErr]

Lineage2 7v7 (and old 9v9) is best mmo pvp ever.
Olympiad is nice but some classes are just shit in 1v1 so its unbalanced :/

[Deleted]

EVE Online


You won't find better PvP.

[Dilbon]

I think there's two things that make PvP fun.

1. No gear
2. No healers