Bulging Bag of Charms on PTR store

[ShimmerSwirl]

This creates a conflict of interest, in that now game designers could possibly be encouraged to design content in such a way that it steers players towards buying this item in the cash shop. The mere appearance of such a conflict is what the problem is here, I don't know why so many of you don't understand this.

QFT.

This is the fundamental problem with any B2P/F2P game that many people do not understand.

[Espe]

Take a step back and actually look at what this game has become: you are PAYING $15 a month for content that you don't want to play, and then paying MORE money to skip this content. What part of this is fun?

The apologists and fanbois will come after you for stating the obvious truth, but you hit that nail on the head. What you need to understand is some people like being taken advantage of. You won't ever be able to convince them that this is wrong because they get off on being treated like crap, some even wearing it as a badge of honor.

Just think of what their parents have done to them... and I suppose pity them if you have the time / energy.

[Arbs]

The apologists and fanbois will come after you for stating the obvious truth, but you hit that nail on the head. What you need to understand is some people like being taken advantage of. You won't ever be able to convince them that this is wrong because they get off on being treated like crap, some even wearing it as a badge of honor.

It's true, when people get there way they wont complain, but I wouldn't consider them apologists & fanboys though.

They are the ones who whinned & got us to this point in the first place.

[Granyala]

Charms are mandatory for raiders. Anyone claiming they aren't does not raid. Any decent raiding guild requires them...

You don't even know what mandatory means.
No I won't argue off topic about that.

If they are so retardedly easy to get and have no value at all then I guess this is really not going to be an issue. Nobody will buy them and Blizzard can remove them from the store after just one week. Either that or you're wrong.

To be quite honest: I'm VERY curious about who would even buy these. Personally I don't see any market for them, except for people that buy them for their low geared alts because they can't properly do Isle of thunder / timeless Isle yet.

But with item level 489/496 being out there for justice, enabling everyone to comfortably go to the timeless isle and with ToT LFR buffed droprate, I don't see the necessity.
People doing stuff on the timeless isle will get them as a side effect anyway and probably at a faster rate than they could possibly spend them due to the weekly restriction.

[Deleted]

Pay to Win already?

And to people saying you're paying for convenience... that's pay to win, you pay to get something others either can not or to get something that takes others a lot of time to get. These charms give you an in-game advantage, and as such, pay to win.

[Dequanacus]

The amount of Blizzard apologist on this forum never ceases to amaze me.

OT, there is no way these type of practices are sustainable by blizzard. Creating mindnumbingly boring content for your players is bad enough. Asking them to pay to skip said content takes it to another level of fail.

Take a step back and actually look at what this game has become: you are PAYING $15 a month for content that you don't want to play, and then paying MORE money to skip this content. What part of this is fun?

If Blizzard really wanted this they wouldnt have made charms drop from mobs or pet battles. Getting charms isn't difficult and you can't argue that Blizzard hasn't made it even easier.

Honestly, until people are actually getting an advantage over me by paying money I don't see why I should care.

[tyrindor]

You don't even know what mandatory means.
No I won't argue off topic about that.

Are you sure it's you who doesn't know what mandatory means?

man·da·to·ry
/ˈmandəˌtôrē/
Adjective

Required by law or rules

My statement:

Charms are mandatory for raiders. Anyone claiming they aren't does not raid. Any decent raiding guild requires them...

My statement is 100% true with the official definition of the word. Any progressed heroic raiding guild requires them, and if you don't use them they will find someone else who does. This makes them mandatory for raiders.

[Dontrike]

The apologists and fanbois will come after you for stating the obvious truth, but you hit that nail on the head. What you need to understand is some people like being taken advantage of. You won't ever be able to convince them that this is wrong because they get off on being treated like crap, some even wearing it as a badge of honor.

Just think of what their parents have done to them... and I suppose pity them if you have the time / energy.

Why do you believe that if someone finds the current products, or the upcoming ones, in the store okay they are "apologists or fanbois" (which is another question as to why you think it is bad is another question)? Isn't it possible that they find what is going on fine without needing to be insulted because they enjoy the game and like what is happening? If or when they take it too far is it hard to believe that those same "apologists or fanbois" will actually not support Blizz in those decisions (some still will) because then we have actual problems rather than just some services that are heading to China.

Right now the store is fine, but I will agree that Blizzard needs to watch where they are going with the store down the road, but that is no reason to insult people or think that the sky is falling.

[AlisonPrime]

ok, time to end this debacle once and for all

YOU ARE PAYING FOR THINGS ALREADY IN THE GAME!!!!!!

The difference is this : do you want to grind for these items or do you want to pay for them and remove the grind? What is more valuable to you, your time or your money?

Experience Potion can be found on Krol the Blade - http://www.wowhead.com/item=86574 - It stops at 84 but hey, its a 300% xp boost to get you into pandaria, but XP boosts exist WITHIN the game itself.

Daily charms, well those exist on lvl 90 mobs.....daily quests......pet battles.....Raid bags...hell it might be easier to list where they DONT exist.

The problem is people want a reason to quit. They been playing the game so very long they are looking for the scape goat to point at and say "Yep, thats the reason the game is stupid now, i need to quit guys, been nice knowin you."

I have 0 problem with these items so long as there exists a way for me to acquire them in game with a certain level of commitment and so long as it doesn't put others at a significant advantage. Its not pay to win, its Pay to remove grind.

Now when Legendary cloaks appear on the store, then you can claim its pay to win because it grants significant player power over others who had been working on it this whole time.

Edit: as others have pointed out, this is an experiment for the Asian market, and you need to know - These people pay by the HOUR not by the month and when they pay by hour they might end up paying more than us in a week than a month that we pay so their time is significantly more valuable than ours. The fact these items exist in ALL other MMOs they have and not WoW was a huge dagger in that market.

Edit 2: Also think about this. When did the double weekly raid lock outs show up in EU and America....when did the raids get split into seperate 10 and 25 lockouts again?

[Dontrike]

Pay to Win already?

And to people saying you're paying for convenience... that's pay to win, you pay to get something others either can not or to get something that takes others a lot of time to get. These charms give you an in-game advantage, and as such, pay to win.

These take a lot of time to get? I think it takes 45 minutes once a week to get them. Not exactly a whole lot of time.

[tyrindor]

ok, time to end this debacle once and for all

YOU ARE PAYING FOR THINGS ALREADY IN THE GAME!!!!!!

The difference is this : do you want to grind for these items or do you want to pay for them and remove the grind? What is more valuable to you, your time or your money?

Experience Potion can be found on Krol the Blade - http://www.wowhead.com/item=86574 - It stops at 84 but hey, its a 300% xp boost to get you into pandaria, but XP boosts exist WITHIN the game itself.

Daily charms, well those exist on lvl 90 mobs.....daily quests......pet battles.....Raid bags...hell it might be easier to list where they DONT exist.

The problem is people want a reason to quit. They been playing the game so very long they are looking for the scape goat to point at and say "Yep, thats the reason the game is stupid now, i need to quit guys, been nice knowin you."

I have 0 problem with these items so long as there exists a way for me to acquire them in game with a certain level of commitment and so long as it doesn't put others at a significant advantage. Its not pay to win, its Pay to remove grind.

Now when Legendary cloaks appear on the store, then you can claim its pay to win because it grants significant player power over others who had been working on it this whole time.

You didn't put an end to anything. The counter for this argument has already been stated multiple times.

"You are paying for things already in the game it's not pay 2 win". Then let's add BiS gear to the in-game store. The fact it's obtainable by other means does not make it any less P2W. Skipping a game mechanic, to any degree, is paying to win.

[Krolikn]

If they are lesser coins I really don't care. I could only see it being useful to a new lvl 90. I always have more than enough and I only do 1 daily hub per day. Not hard or time consuming.

[Dequanacus]

You didn't put an end to anything. The counter for this argument has already been stated multiple times.

"You are paying for things already in the game it's not pay 2 win". Then let's add BiS gear to the in-game store. The fact it's obtainable by other means does not make it any less P2W.

Great straw man. If you actually read her post you'd notice she said "Now when Legendary cloaks appear on the store, then you can claim its pay to win because it grants significant player power over others who had been working on it this whole time."

[tyrindor]

Great straw man. If you actually read her post you'd notice she said "Now when Legendary cloaks appear on the store, then you can claim its pay to win because it grants significant player power over others who had been working on it this whole time."

I did read her post. She shouldn't of lead with the argument "It's already in the game" as the reason it's not P2W. She contradicted her own statement.

[Deleted]

I have 0 problem with these items so long as there exists a way for me to acquire them in game with a certain level of commitment and so long as it doesn't put others at a significant advantage. Its not pay to win, its Pay to remove grind.

Now when Legendary cloaks appear on the store, then you can claim its pay to win because it grants significant player power over others who had been working on it this whole time.

You can get the legendary cloack in game "with a certain level of commitment" to quote you.

If they are lesser coins I really don't care. I could only see it being useful to a new lvl 90. I always have more than enough and I only do 1 daily hub per day. Not hard or time consuming.

/Change the types of charms required
/nerf droprates
/we are waiting you in our cash shop, prepare the wallet

[Santoryu]

Bingo.

The developers are basically "fighting" the players.

In the traditional model, developers work for the players, to keep them happy so players will buy their game - and the game after that.

In F2P, developers do their best to subtly inconvenience players to get them to spit out cash.

Yep, you and the person you quoted hit the nail on the head.

[Granyala]

"Now when Legendary cloaks appear on the store, then you can claim its pay to win because it grants significant player power over others who had been working on it this whole time."

It is not Pay to Win

YET.

People fear that once the charms are established and people are used to the thought of buying stuff in order to circumvent an unfun grind, the DEVs wil GRADUALLY and almost unnoticably INCREASE the grind to the point that most people feel pressured into buying stuff.

IN ESSENCE: MAKE THE GAME LESS FUN TO ENCOURAGE THE SPENDING OF RL MONEY.

A LOT of the free to play companies do something like this, and I very much agree that this is a valid fear.
It's one I share, and I hope Blizzard doesn't disappoint me.

[Venant]

ok, time to end this debacle once and for all

YOU ARE PAYING FOR THINGS ALREADY IN THE GAME!!!!!!

The difference is this : do you want to grind for these items or do you want to pay for them and remove the grind? What is more valuable to you, your time or your money?

How does this make any sense, you are arguing that they are putting things in the game that are a grind, ie. things that are not fun to do, in a GAME. So you make a GAME which is supposed to be FUN, then purposely make parts of the game NOT FUN and then you allow people to pay more money to skip the parts of the game that are not fun. This sounds insane!

Here is an idea: design the entire game experience to be fun, if you have to put chores in the game then make them FUN, don't make grinds that are clearly not fun then offer the choice to pay for skipping this part of the game.

I mean this is just so ridiculous, maybe the game is actually no longer fun at all, maybe they should offer you an option where you don't even need to play the game! Oh yeah they do, its the unsubscribe button, which many more people will discover if they keep moving the game in this ridiculous direction.

[tyrindor]

You can get the legendary cloack in game "with a certain level of commitment" to quote you.

Exactly..

Pretty much every argument by someone supporting this contradicts itself. The best argument so far is "You have no proof that they will add more agressive P2W items to the store, even if these charms sell well." Which is 100% true, but is not a risk many of us want to take.

100% XP consumable? I can live with it.
Anything that affects max level characters in any way? Get rid of it or remove the subscription fee.

[Deleted]

100% XP consumable? I can live with it.
Anything that affects max level characters in any way? Get rid of it or remove the subscription fee.

this .

ll explain it for you, exactly how this can effect "End game content" from a pre hardcore raiders pov.

First: If you are a hardcore raider you need alts for several reasons. For example, Class stacking.. We see it all the time on diffrent encounters. (Mages on spine of deathwing, Warlocks on lich king etc...)

Say that the hardcore 25man guilds realise that they need 10 warlock portals inorder to kill an encounter. How would'nt this 100% increase xp gain affect the End game then?

Second: During ICC my guildmaster with the officers decided that we needed to have an exact copy alt as our mains. Same race, Same class, Same talents and same roles. They decided this due to the Limited attempts in ICC.. So 31 people in our guild had 1 week to level from level 1-80 and gear up to atleast 240 ilvl. How wouldnt this 100% xp elixir effect with End Game content and it's rankings ?