Still No Word On Any Compensation For these nerfs?

[Deleted]

Or, you know, they could just let the aids that is the Destruction spec die in its own fire, while I laugh at Brusalk and Zumzum.

Meanie :S

On topic
Feels like they dont know what to do with warlocks, just take a look at the new KJC for demo.

[apepi]

Your compensation is hitting other Warlocks/Boomkins/Spriest harder, congrats!

[Deleted]

I'm really confused, I've seen a couple of these "Where's the compensation for nerfs" threads from a couple different classes. And I'm confused.

If a class is overpowered in some way, they get nerfed. If a class gets nerfed why the hell would people then expect buffs to counteract the nerfs? It'd be equivalent to saying "Well, you nerfed my damage by 10%, so you should buff my survivability by 50%" like, what? Why? You got nerfed because you were too strong, why would you then expect buffs so you can yet again be too strong.

Regardless, Locks are absurdly strong right now, it's no shock they got nerfed. The only class in the game that can keep up damage wise is Mages, but Mages bring no utility compared to Locks. I'm just like, confused. Why would you expect buffs after getting nerfed because your class is too strong? Makes no sense.

Destruction warlocks were never overpowered though. So to get their ember regen and not compensate somewhere else would be pretty shit. That being said I'm not going to have a fit about it until 5.4 drops

[demonik]

actually the only reason i asked is because i thought i remember blizz saying they were gonna do something to compensate for the rain of fire ember generation nerf, that and they did give some type of compensation to the boomkin and spriest for the 10% damage reduction nerf by giving them extra armor to moonkin form and shadow form, but nothing yet to fel armor.

[Kylecat15]

As a hunter I am heartbroken to see a warlock nerf, maybe I can almost be relevant now.

Just kidding, you will still easily top hunters. gg

[Rucati]

They can also nerf non-overpowered specs, which is now the case.

So pick a different spec? You have two perfectly viable specs, one of which can pull absolutely absurd numbers on some fights (400k+ Dark Animus zerg DPS)

Other classes don't have any strong specs. I feel like Blizzard should probably worry about that first.

[PickleballAce]

So many people wandering into this thread from who-knows-where and entirely missing the point...

[Viradiance]

So pick a different spec? You have two perfectly viable specs, one of which can pull absolutely absurd numbers on some fights (400k+ Dark Animus zerg DPS)

Other classes don't have any strong specs. I feel like Blizzard should probably worry about that first.

Are we still talking about Warlocks, or are you simply the most oblivious person on the entire internet?

By the way, tuning pass is barely starting. ROF change will be compensated for-- it's not meant as a DPS nerf, simply a QOL / gameplay change. Expecting extra embers per Immolate tick.

Nerf to Fel Armor happened to Moonkin and Shadow form, too. If I had to guess, it'll be changed to give bonus armor like the latter two (easier to balance than flat DR in PVE)

[Abysal]

and they did give some type of compensation to the boomkin and spriest for the 10% damage reduction nerf by giving them extra armor to moonkin form and shadow form, but nothing yet to fel armor.

Fel Armor already increases health by 10% and healing received by 10%. It doesn't need more. Warlocks needed a survivability nerf IMO.

Still waiting to see what they do to help out Destro's damage though.

[Vulkrum]

Fel Armor already increases health by 10% and healing received by 10%. It doesn't need more. Warlocks needed a survivability nerf IMO.

Still waiting to see what they do to help out Destro's damage though.

This, as a destro lock, I don't want to feel pigeon holed into another spec because blizzard doesn't know how to scale destro properly.

[Fuiking]

Maybe corruption back as a dot? or curse of doom?

[Count Zero]

My fearful prediction is close to the end of the PTR cycle they leave ember generation nerfed but buff our consumers. Then within the first week of it being the buff gets not just reverted but over-nerfed so that it's worse than it was before.

[FurtyIRL]

My fearful prediction is close to the end of the PTR cycle they leave ember generation nerfed but buff our consumers. Then within the first week of it being the buff gets not just reverted but over-nerfed so that it's worse than it was before.

Pretty much

[Werst]

RoF as a mechanics nerf is fine... It was an aoe ability that worked its way into single target. Thing is even with 30% extra embers destro was falling behind aff/demo (to say nothing of firemage/etc) by an increasing amount. Destro's spellpower/int coef are too low, its secondary stat scaling is way to low (esp w/o RoF - esp haste), and it has relatively few places to add damage back in. It also has some basic logic devs probably have to follow (eg ember spenders hitting harder than ember generators but spenders can't hit too hard due to pvp)

PVP destro is a hot mess since blizz loves the outdated/roleplay/nostalgic idea of winding up this big cast. Its sort of like your grandparents giving you a quarter or dollar bill as a birthday present. Its not 1947 anymore...inflation happended. In this case pvp arms race of gap closers vs gap openers, who can out swifty macro each other, CC proliferation, etc. Reality is there is no good way to reconcile how hard something has to hit to be worth it in terms of DPET, let alone the harsh reality of trying to cast nowdays when one spell is almost binary in your kill chance. So in addition to the other stuff there is a subjective limit to how hard CB is allowed to scale in pvp.

PVE destro loses 30% embers. Means its baseline nukes (immolate, incinerate, conflag, and fel flame) need to hit harder and scale with our spellpower/int which is more consistently tied to ilvl. Embers aside destro needs coef closer to arcane. They could just turn up ember generation from those normal rotational spells BUT that also renders the set bonus less effective since the ICD means ember generation rate scales inversely with gear. Devs just keep layering on the handcuffs for destro being a spec that can grow with others! Destro needs to do better with haste scaling. Especially with the legendary meta having incinerate banging into the gcd like a short girl's cervix at even modest haste ratings. A minor glyph to make backdraft do 30% more dmg or even just 30% more crit would do quite a bit to fix that. Conflag's recharge needs to scale with haste just like the imp swarm glyph. Also until MF works for F&B spells destro just will not compete in aoe which further nails the coffin for its raid viability even in niche situations.

Thematically destro should be about its nukes. I think the notion of a long cast for absurd damage just doesn't translate to pvp. Thus a more frequent and far easier to use system seems like a better direction. Take the other classes in the game and saddle them w' a 3 sec cast and see how many find that "fun". If you think that would lose you subscribers its probably NOT a good idea for warlocks/destro. I don't mind destro with a simpler spellbook and skill being about when to press what than the chainsaw juggling of button bloat locks have seen in the past. Especially as a spec for new players or players new to warlocks.

A numbers pass is really hard to do when a spec is so awful you can't bring it somewhere that is tuned to be a challenge. Sure you can have someone carried but that's dicey in 10m raiding and for what...we all know destro is leagues behind with an ever widening gap. Give the spec some big and "rough/ballpark" buffs then do a pass with something that we can at least take outside of shrine without embarrassing ourselves.

TLDR =
*Conflag cd reduced dynamically by haste
*Minor glyph to swap backdraft 30% incinerate haste for 30% crit
*Spellpower coef buffed to arcane mage levels for incinerate, immolate, conflag, and fel flame
*F&B spells included in MF
*Chaosbolt cast shortened to 2 sec base, instant at 3x backdraft
*Redesign the 2pc and 4pc: 100% on conflag crit or 20% on conflag hit, and take the ICD off if nothing else.

That would get destro back in the mix. Give that a PTR iteration to get some test data then tune from there. Right now all we know is it really sucks to the point of being a leveling only type spec. If it has no role in pve or pvp (compared to hunter/mage/ele/etc) then its safe to say the spec needs help.

[Hegemonia]

So many people wandering into this thread from who-knows-where and entirely missing the point...

lol, exactly

Destro is a very crappy spec PvP-wise right now. The only thing it offers is survivability (through ember tap and passive damage reduction). It get's hit on both fronts and this will make it even crappier. In addition the ember generation will hit the dps as well. That's why we are saying they need to compensate us somehow.

[Deleted]

TLDR =
*Conflag cd reduced dynamically by haste
*Minor glyph to swap backdraft 30% incinerate haste for 30% crit
*Spellpower coef buffed to arcane mage levels for incinerate, immolate, conflag, and fel flame
*F&B spells included in MF
*Chaosbolt cast shortened to 2 sec base, instant at 3x backdraft
*Redesign the 2pc and 4pc: 100% on conflag crit or 20% on conflag hit, and take the ICD off if nothing else.

i think those are very good ideas, especially with the glyph to change backdraft from haste to crit or maybe even mastery that would be quite awesome if that happened and it will also cause a better cohesion between all our specs as it will more or less allow us to play all 3 specs with the same statweights or close to the same atleast, so we can switch between them as we wish which is only a good thing. a spellcoef buff would also help as the dmg seem quite low for our fillers. im not too sure about adding FnB spells to MF, as aoeing has never been destro's problem but mainly afflic's problem, if it does happen then it should be limited to only incinerate and even then ill have reservations about, it might be too insane a buff. chaosbolt being reduced to a 2 sec cast baseline and instant with back draft will never happen, it would cause major problems in pvp and a 2 sec cast baseline would also cuase the spellcoef of that spell to be lowered, which might not be a good thing, 3 sec cast seems just about right for the spell and instead of make chaosbolt instant it could just cut its cast time in half.

[Shodan30]

I think we do need to start making some more noise on the official wow forum about destructions ember generation. The fel armor reduction may be a nerf, but nobody said we were getting something in return for it, thats typical class changing balance (doesnt matter if you like it or not). However Embers is a thing that they flat out said was getting nerfed because they wanted to change how the embers were generated not nerf the generation rate.

It's not that i think blizzard isnt planning a change, however I think i can say without whining that destruction balance has been for quite some time very stupidly implemented. Chaosbolt in Cataclysm beta was doing amazing amounts of damage, and it was consistantly reported by warlocks during the beta that it was going to be a problem, yet they went until 3 days after cata went live to emergency nerf it and throw off the balance of the entire spec for the entire expansion. Several patches/expansion later, both demo and affliction have had similar last minute implementations applied and again now we have a large public test realm and the first thing they do in the first patch of the PTR is nerf ember generation, and its looking like the last thing they are going to compensate for it before it goes live. So it will either be underpar or overpowered, but in all likelyhood, undertested. which is my gripe. I've played WoW since the public beta of vanilla, and I just dont understand the mindset. If you are going to nerf and replace something as major as resource generation for a class, you need to have the nerf and the replacement ready in the first release of a test candidate.

[Schma]

I honestly think we're worrying for no reason. With a ton of targets and RoF the ember generation nerf means nothing, so really it only hurts us single target (duh), which they can fix/adjust in a bunch of different ways (that don't necessarily mess with ember generation). This maybe their mindset in "putting off" compensation, and just leaving to the class-wide number balancing pass. I do agree that it sucks having to wait for so long, but then again it is PTR and there is still what, 2 months left?

[FurtyIRL]

I honestly think we're worrying for no reason. With a ton of targets and RoF the ember generation nerf means nothing, so really it only hurts us single target (duh), which they can fix/adjust in a bunch of different ways (that don't necessarily mess with ember generation). I do agree that it sucks having to wait for so long, but then again it is PTR and there is still what, 2 months left?

The sad reality is that if you cry long and hard enough, someone will eventually give you a lollipop. I will say I think the PTR cycle is shorter than that though, but who knows?

[oland138]

The RoF nerf is balanced around having the 4 pc bonus. If you dont have it, you are basically screwed.

I'm pretty sure blizz said that the RoF nerf is because of the new mannoroth's fury.