What if they made one rogue spec ranged?

[Shelly]

When you select it a ranged weapon is mailed to you. Turns you into a "petless" hunter of sorts with all the same rogue mechanics, though changed somewhat for ranged - so it might do away with a few that require specific positioning.

It would open up the loot table and would make playing a rogue more interesting. Maybe dump assassin spec for it, I dunno. Don't really play a rogue, just a thought experiment.

(Thinking dumping assassin because of a rogue as an implied sniper, killing from long range.)

[Deleted]

I¨ve also thought about this thing. However that means a big overhaul for rogues and Ghostcrawler has already said that they wont make anything too big with hunters and rogues. (But the idea is really cool)

[MrWolly]

It could make for an interesting 4th spec if said mechanic was ever added. Dark Ranger ftw! The melee abilities would likely switch over to ranged. I could see it being potentially OP, though. Imagine a ranged ambush...

[Shelly]

It could make for an interesting 4th spec if said mechanic was ever added. Dark Ranger ftw! The melee abilities would likely switch over to ranged. I could see it being potentially OP, though. Imagine a ranged ambush...

What else would you call a snipe? You just flux the numbers and bit and you're good.

And I don't see it so much as a 4th spec, unless they add a 4th for everyone but druids, but rather as a replacement to one of the specs to add diversity. Moving abilities around a bit and easing balance a tad. I mean the folks who LOVE melee rogue will then have two really unique playstyles to choose from and the groups that want a petless hunter will now have a strong DPS heavy choice there too.

[Larynx]

I'd see it more likely to remove Marksman's pet than add a ranged rogue spec. They did say they wanted to distinguish the hunter specs more, and that would do it. I imagine survival would remain similar to what it is now though.

For rogues, honestly sub and combat are fine. Assassination seems too similar to sub, and sub I REALLY doubt they'd change. Assassination needs to be more DoT focused than it already is, maybe change how Deadly Poison works.

Though I wouldn't be against a Dark Ranger, I don't see rogues as the necromancy type.

[roflwaffle]

if they had a ranger type spec i'd actually see it play much the same as marksman lol.

except more bleed heavy.

[Warstar]

Rogues and hunters need 1 class 4 specs. Dagger or sword melee specs and then ranged marksman and then ranged pet class.

But there's a hunter class and a rogue class. Rogues are melee hunter's are ranged and they both have 3 blase specs with little differentiating them so a rogue getting a ranged spec would take away from what could potentially give hunters things to separate their specs.

[cpillow]

A dagger thrower or something.

[Avengerx]

Problem with this is that it wouldn't "add" anything to the class. Most likely you would still be mashing the very same buttons as with the other specs.
I (and I think I can speak for many others in this case) would love to see the current specs remade or renewed somehow instead of adding a 4th spec. Don't forget that Blizz right now can't even balance the current ones, now imagine that with 4...would be a nightmare.

Also it could probably mean that hunters would get a melee spec then and (I'll be a selfish bastard here) I had enough of them ninjaing our bis weapons just because it gave them slightly more dps. (Vica-versa with us taking ranged weapons from them).

[Warstar]

Problem with this is that it wouldn't "add" anything to the class. Most likely you would still be mashing the very same buttons as with the other specs.
I (and I think I can speak for many others in this case) would love to see the current specs remade or renewed somehow instead of adding a 4th spec. Don't forget that Blizz right now can't even balance the current ones, now imagine that with 4...would be a nightmare.

Also it could probably mean that hunters would get a melee spec then and (I'll be a selfish bastard here) I had enough of them ninjaing our bis weapons just because it gave them slightly more dps. (Vica-versa with us taking ranged weapons from them).

I think if hunters were a melee class they would be balanced more around the agility polearms and staves out there since those were the main "hunter" weapons before and dual wielding hunters were just asses who wanted to steal rogue gear. Hell even their old hunter quest items were a bow and a staff. Sure if they added a hunter melee spec they'd probably get dual wield and would probably want to steal rogue loot but back then the dual wielding was more for the bonus enchants and the stats of 2 1 handers instead of the damage they'd do with raptor strike since raptor strike was more of a 2 handed weapon ability.

[Avengerx]

I think if hunters were a melee class they would be balanced more around the agility polearms and staves out there since those were the main "hunter" weapons before and dual wielding hunters were just asses who wanted to steal rogue gear. Hell even their old hunter quest items were a bow and a staff. Sure if they added a hunter melee spec they'd probably get dual wield and would probably want to steal rogue loot but back then the dual wielding was more for the bonus enchants and the stats of 2 1 handers instead of the damage they'd do with raptor strike since raptor strike was more of a 2 handed weapon ability.

Yeah the good old days when hunters were able to dual wield weapons...

Omg, omg Webbed Death finally dropped.
Me bids 50 dkp.
Hunter#1: Me bids over 9000 dkp.
Hunter#2: over 9000 + 1
Hunter#3: Meh already have 2, pass.
Me: *sad panda*

Besides this, I don't have anything against a ranged rogue spec if they would fix the others first.

[Shelly]

Problem with this is that it wouldn't "add" anything to the class. Most likely you would still be mashing the very same buttons as with the other specs.
I (and I think I can speak for many others in this case) would love to see the current specs remade or renewed somehow instead of adding a 4th spec. Don't forget that Blizz right now can't even balance the current ones, now imagine that with 4...would be a nightmare.

Also it could probably mean that hunters would get a melee spec then and (I'll be a selfish bastard here) I had enough of them ninjaing our bis weapons just because it gave them slightly more dps. (Vica-versa with us taking ranged weapons from them).

That's a pretty fallacious way of thinking. We ALL mash the same buttons. How many of you have keybinds set up so that no matter what class you're playing you're always hitting the same buttons? So yeah, you would be hitting the same buttons, but frankly that's what everyone does.

Also I'm not talking about adding a 4th spec, I'm talking about taking one of the current 3-specs and changing it into a ranged spec. The one I think would work best would be Assassination. Which would then open up Combat to allow for more single target melee damage.

And while it would open up the potential for a hunter melee spec you're missing the point that what this does is broadens the loot table to make ranged weapons available to more than a single class. As right now it's just hunters, no hunter in your group? Welcome to shard town! Currently there is more than enough competition for agility melee weapons. Competition makes gearing more interesting and makes you look forward to fights more.

Anyway, pretty much every rogue ability can quickly be turned into a ranged attack and their various escape maneuvers and benefits are fine even from a ranged perspective.

[Avengerx]

That's a pretty fallacious way of thinking. We ALL mash the same buttons. How many of you have keybinds set up so that no matter what class you're playing you're always hitting the same buttons? So yeah, you would be hitting the same buttons, but frankly that's what everyone does.

Also I'm not talking about adding a 4th spec, I'm talking about taking one of the current 3-specs and changing it into a ranged spec. The one I think would work best would be Assassination. Which would then open up Combat to allow for more single target melee damage.

And while it would open up the potential for a hunter melee spec you're missing the point that what this does is broadens the loot table to make ranged weapons available to more than a single class. As right now it's just hunters, no hunter in your group? Welcome to shard town! Currently there is more than enough competition for agility melee weapons. Competition makes gearing more interesting and makes you look forward to fights more.

Anyway, pretty much every rogue ability can quickly be turned into a ranged attack and their various escape maneuvers and benefits are fine even from a ranged perspective.

Sorry should have been a bit more precise. I meant that each 3 rogue spec basically uses the very same mechanic, rotation, etc. whatever comes to your mind. .), so adding a theoretical 4th one that does the same wouldn't do that much for the class.
Yes I know you wanted to change assassination into the ranged spec, but currently that's our most streamlined and balanced spec out of the 3. Combat with it's mashy style and slow weapons also has quite a lot of followers and sub has practically been the pvp spec for a while now. So currently the only way I see it now for a ranged spec to be is as a 4th spec (just my opinion tho).
You are right that it could theoretically fix the no hunter/rogue but weapon dropped issue for them, which in a 10 men environment would be quite welcomed, but I can also imagine it would cause tons of looting problems for groups with more than 1 rogue/hunter.

From what I experienced loot competition in an rng drop world usually makes people more frustrated and annoyed, the opposite of making things interesting. Yes,yes I know we are here for the fun and not for the shinies and that people can talk things over with each other but still when after months of boss killing you get no weapons and when it finally drops then you have to possibly deal with another class able to roll on it...that's not fun imho.

[Verain]

I would love to have a ranged spec, and/or heal spec, and/or tank spec.

However- I don't think any of these will happen, and I'm not going to be sad if they don't.


A ranged spec is probably the most defensible. But, GC even chimed in on this awhile ago, saying that if rogues had a ranged spec, they would be forced into it. I believe this to be accurate.

There is currently no one in game that can switch between being ranged and melee in the same gear, or even sort of the same gear. Only Int is used for ranged, and only Agi and Str for melee. The only exception, hunters, don't have an agi melee spec (they can stand in melee, but that power only came in the same patch that changed ranged mechanics to actually choose ranged and healers specifically with certain mechanics).

If they made a fourth ranged rogue spec- or converted a current spec to be ranged- or gave us a ranged stance and rotation...

The first problem is they would have to answer, for the first time, "what is the damage penalty for being at range?". This has historically been obscured by outliers (on live warlocks are a pretty good example of that), but it seems likely that something like this is intended. If the answer is "there is no difference", then it would make every rogue feel selfish if they stayed in melee.

Blizzard has done a generally bad job of rewarding melee. The specs are often very desired and flavorful, but tend to have relatively few raid spots. Only a few fights this tier make you actually want three characters in melee and punish you if you don't have that (and often those three include a tank and a tank running their offspec). Rogues under the current system must be designed to be top single target sustained- PERIOD, no exceptions, or they begin to evaporate, as raid leaders have no use for them. On top of that, they need very strong mitigation to be able to stay in melee. This leaves a very small niche for rogues ("your 10 man has a rogue- congrats, every other spec competes for the second spot" VERSUS "rogues are a dead class, be something with a role in a raid"), and, while it is MUCH LESS IMPORTANT, because specs are way less important than classes, has also left the hybrid melee (warriors, DKs, druids, shaman, monk, paladin) in a tough spot- those specs are really only brought when they are overpowered (and then you run the risk of depopulating rogues again).



Ranged versus melee has had some solutions. A bad one we saw in ICC and really most of LK. Deathbringer Saurfang had a mechanic where he would summon adds. The adds would aggro and walk reasonably fast to their targets, and they were mostly untankable. However, they were snareable, and as such, ranged would be tasked to damage them to aggro them, snare them, and kill them. Melee were literally tasked to sit on Saurfang for the entire fight. During progression, parses showed melee as top damage on this fight. But, that was just because ranged had a job. You couldn't stack all melee- the adds would kill you. You COULD stack all ranged- the melee damage wasn't better than the ranged damage, and if you had your top single target ranged sit in melee you'd have the same effect as a diverse guild.

Ranged were strictly better than melee this tier. Melee had essentially chosen to opt out of mechanics.


In Cata, we saw two designs, one utter shit, one interesting but misguided. The first tier featured bosses that would spam spells, and insist on regular lockouts. Since melee had the lowest cooldown on kicks (with the exception of "any shaman", for some reason), we would see melee brought in just sufficient numbers to guarntee lockouts (task all had kicks at this time, so you had to ensure enough kicks that the tanks couldn't handle it). This was obnoxious and awful.

Then in DS, they just made melee get more AP than the rest out of a buff. Melee damage was just tuned higher. So now you actually wanted to bring melee for their damage- but this punished the 3/4 pures that were ranged. However, it achieved the goal- people wanted melee in their specs for damage, and wanted ranged for damage and utility, and you absolutely saw better comps then. It would just be nice to have accomplished that without having to stack damage towards melee specs.


Currently, the plan is that some bosses pick just ranged (and non-monk healers) for certain mechanics. For instance, Blade Lord will not target a melee for tornadoes. If a mage stands with the rogue, he's still considered ranged, and the raid can wipe. This is also interesting- in that your melee essentially have less mechanics to deal with, in exchange for the extra bonus "be in melee" mechanic- but the problem here is that it's the Saurfang issue again. A guild with 1 melee and 4 ranged and 3 healers on such a boss has a 1/7 chance of each ranged or healer being targeted. If instead you were 3 melee, 2 ranged, and 3 healers, the odds of each ranged or healer being targeted go up to 1/5. The odds of a healer being targeted are 42% in the first case and 60% in the second. If you went to 4 melee, 1 ranged, and 3 healers, 75% of the mechanics would go to healers, and the ranged dps would also be having to solo 25% of the mechanics himself. In this case, the melee are actually making the job harder for the ranged and healers- it is VERY easy to resent melee for this role. It's harder to resent a rogue (but it still happens, and that's a huge part of why rogues generally get ignored as raiding mains), but it is almost guaranteed to happen to a paladin, shaman, druid, or monk, all of whom could have chosen a much better job than melee, taken the pressure off of the healers and ranged, etc.

They have tried "casters have to stand still", but they can't be arsed to actually implement that. So, who knows.

[Deleted]

Ranged rogue would make no sense.

[Vintersol]

When you select it a ranged weapon is mailed to you. Turns you into a "petless" hunter of sorts with all the same rogue mechanics, though changed somewhat for ranged - so it might do away with a few that require specific positioning.

This is a thing that i'm waiting for a long time. A ranged spec would make sense to have something different than 3 melee dps specs. Also the ranged weapons like Bows, Crossbows, Guns have the right stats and hunters are the only class that could use them, so it wouldn't be an issue itemwise.

[Kalcheus]

Yeah the good old days when hunters were able to dual wield weapons...

Omg, omg Webbed Death finally dropped.
Me bids 50 dkp.
Hunter#1: Me bids over 9000 dkp.
Hunter#2: over 9000 + 1
Hunter#3: Meh already have 2, pass.
Me: *sad panda*

Sounds like you shouldn't have gotten into the whelps

[Deleted]

Ranged rogue would make no sense.

Melee Rogue makes no sense.

a Rogue is someone of ill repute and probably not within the Law, and usually shuns combat and favors backstabbing than a protracted fight.

How is standing around stabbing with daggers at a dragons asshole a rogue?

[Nanaboostme]

When you select it a ranged weapon is mailed to you.

why would they mail you a free ranged weapon to you when the point of WoW is to work on getting weapon and gear

Ranged rogue would make no sense.

based off of what evidence and theory? Your opinion? Ever heard of ninja stars? Or like any other game with rogues? Or kinda like how rogues in wow have ranged attacks already?

[Odina]

Ranged rogue would make no sense.

I think it makes perfect sense ...


and yes batman throwing stars must be in the game if rogues get a ranged spec!