what the hell is your ranked system ?

[kimoberoi]

So i had a lot of net problems when i played my ranked placement matches ..fell to Bronze 1 . anyway i try to win to get out of bronze ...troll , afk , more trolls ...what ever lost a lot . Now i managed to win a few games ...also on a wining streak ..may be won 5 ranked games in a row ...but all are 3 points .WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS GOING ON ?

I mean i understand your player base is not high enough for players less than 30 , so lower level matches are crappy .
Ranked matches ...****ing hell 40 to 50 minute troll games for 3 points 5 times in a row .

And i was speaking to GM's on the NA server to shift my account to GA ... LMAO

I am at 61 points ..means 14 games to win in a row just to play promotion matches ...really ?

[Deleted]

Two things happen to make your LP gains that low. First of all, when you are in bronze 1 (same for silver 1, gold 1, etc), your LP gains will get smaller, as the system is trying to determine if you really deserve to get to your promotion and leave that division. Thus it will try to make you play more games, and eventually start matching you against higher rated people. It seems that if you lose a bit or get to a promotion and lose that, the LP gains will go back to normal for a while. Presumably because if you got to your promotion once with the bad lp gains, you deserved it and can just go right back to trying again.

Another thing that can happen is the system believes you belong exactly where you are and starts giving you very small lp gains (because by nature, the system will try to bring you to a 50% win rate). This is not likely in your current situation as you only just finished your placement matches. But it can happen further down the road.

[Angarin]

I think this thread would be more useful on the actual LoL official forums. No designer/dev is going to look at these forums on a regular basis.

[Duilliath]

Try again so we can understand what you're saying.

//edit: Apparently people did manage to get an idea other than this being a @Riot rant on the wrong forums.

[alturic]

Two things happen to make your LP gains that low. First of all, when you are in bronze 1 (same for silver 1, gold 1, etc), your LP gains will get smaller, as the system is trying to determine if you really deserve to get to your promotion and leave that division. Thus it will try to make you play more games, and eventually start matching you against higher rated people. It seems that if you lose a bit or get to a promotion and lose that, the LP gains will go back to normal for a while. Presumably because if you got to your promotion once with the bad lp gains, you deserved it and can just go right back to trying again.

Another thing that can happen is the system believes you belong exactly where you are and starts giving you very small lp gains (because by nature, the system will try to bring you to a 50% win rate). This is not likely in your current situation as you only just finished your placement matches. But it can happen further down the road.

You know, I've watched Athene's videos about this and it makes no sense. Why exactly would a match-making system/game WANT you to be at a 50% win rate? What exact reasoning would it have? I could potentially see something where you got gear after X wins, sure you wouldn't want some people with decked out gear where they can crush people but in a system where it's normally you and 4 other randoms or even you/friend and 3 other randoms it makes no sense at all to me why Riot feels you should be at a 50/50 ratio?

[Deleted]

You know, I've watched Athene's videos about this and it makes no sense. Why exactly would a match-making system/game WANT you to be at a 50% win rate? What exact reasoning would it have? I could potentially see something where you got gear after X wins, sure you wouldn't want some people with decked out gear where they can crush people but in a system where it's normally you and 4 other randoms or even you/friend and 3 other randoms it makes no sense at all to me why Riot feels you should be at a 50/50 ratio?

Because when you're at a steady 50% win rate, statistically speaking, you should be playing pretty much every game with people at the same skill level as you. The matchmaking is fair at the point where a game between these 10 players can go either way... represented by the 50% win rate.

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//edit: Apparently people did manage to get an idea other than this being a @Riot rant on the wrong forums.

I am fluent in internet gibberish :3

[alturic]

Because when you're at a steady 50% win rate, statistically speaking, you should be playing pretty much every game with people at the same skill level as you. The matchmaking is fair at the point where a game between these 10 players can go either way... represented by the 50% win rate.

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I am fluent in internet gibberish :3

So you're saying it's Riots artificial way of trying to keep you playing against people at your "skill level"? Wouldn't that mean if you are Gold 5 you should be playing against other Gold 4, 5 and Plat 1, 2s (to determine if you rank up)?

I'm just confused on how Riot thinks (and if you see below you'll see what I'm saying) Bronze II should be playing again someone who's Silver I, II, III to keep them "held back" from winning a ton of games against other Bronze I, II and III's unless Riot can't think of a better way to handle ranks, a la decay and getting deranked for actual losses and not artificial/imposed loses.

I'm not saying that you are saying this, but if I was Bronze II, I shouldn't be playing against Silver V or Gold 1.

Clearly I don't know, nor care enough to, on how Bronze I-V, Silver I-V, etc is "made up" in terms of ELO but as a layman each subdivision of a division would typicall have a higher ELO than the last which is what I'm basing my comment off of.

[Duilliath]

You know, I've watched Athene's videos about this and it makes no sense. Why exactly would a match-making system/game WANT you to be at a 50% win rate? What exact reasoning would it have? I could potentially see something where you got gear after X wins, sure you wouldn't want some people with decked out gear where they can crush people but in a system where it's normally you and 4 other randoms or even you/friend and 3 other randoms it makes no sense at all to me why Riot feels you should be at a 50/50 ratio?

It doesn't. This has been stated explicitely by Riot.

All the Matchmaker is *trying* to do is accurately predict which side will win. That is all.

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I'm not saying that you are saying this, but if I was Bronze II, I shouldn't be playing against Silver V or Gold 1.

False. If you never had a chance to prove yourself against people 'better' than you, you'd never have a chance to rise up to higher levels.

Additionally, that Silver V person may well have hit rock bottom and is only in Silver V because they can't be demoted, thus being around Bronze III level.

[Deleted]

So you're saying it's Riots artificial way of trying to keep you playing against people at your "skill level"? Wouldn't that mean if you are Gold 5 you should be playing against other Gold 4, 5 and Plat 1, 2s (to determine if you rank up)?

I'm just confused on how Riot thinks (and if you see below you'll see what I'm saying) Bronze II should be playing again someone who's Silver I, II, III to keep them "held back" from winning a ton of games against other Bronze I, II and III's unless Riot can't think of a better way to handle ranks, a la decay and getting deranked for actual losses and not artificial/imposed loses.

I'm not saying that you are saying this, but if I was Bronze II, I shouldn't be playing against Silver V or Gold 1.

Clearly I don't know, nor care enough to, on how Bronze I-V, Silver I-V, etc is "made up" in terms of ELO but as a layman each subdivision of a division would typicall have a higher ELO than the last which is what I'm basing my comment off of.

Generally you only get matched against decidedly higher rated players when you are approaching a 1 to 5 promotion or are in a promotion itself. It can also happen due to duo queues as they artificially raise a team's overall MMR, but yes, it is basically Riot's way to try to keep you playing against people at your skill level "most of the time". Also, the divisions themselves are actually completely artificial and don't offer a particularly accurate representation of your hidden elo. A gold V player's rating can tank so low that they start matching up against silver V players. Or worse.

[alturic]

It doesn't. This has been stated explicitely by Riot.

All the Matchmaker is *trying* to do is accurately predict which side will win. That is all.

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False. If you never had a chance to prove yourself against people 'better' than you, you'd never have a chance to rise up to higher levels.

Additionally, that Silver V person may well have hit rock bottom and is only in Silver V because they can't be demoted, thus being around Bronze III level.

The matchmaking system (or any system for that matter that groups people by "skill" shouldn't be trying to predict anything... after-all what's the point in trying to predict the outcome of a match? It's not like Riot has anything on the line that they want one side to win or lose, do they? Again what's the reasoning for it?

Secondly, I'm not saying you shouldn't be grouped with someone in Bronze III, IV or V if you are Bronze II but certainly not someone in a whole other division outside of rank I in that division, and like I said I don't know if "NORMALLY" a Bronze II would go against a Silver IV but if so, that's just "odd" to me.

Further-more what's the reasoning behind not allowing you to get demoted, but instead simply tank your "hidden" "rank" to where... you are essentially demoted?

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Generally you only get matched against decidedly higher rated players when you are approaching a 1 to 5 promotion or are in a promotion itself. It can also happen due to duo queues as they artificially raise a team's overall MMR, but yes, it is basically Riot's way to try to keep you playing against people at your skill level "most of the time". Also, the divisions themselves are actually completely artificial and don't offer a particularly accurate representation of your hidden elo. A gold V player's rating can tank so low that they start matching up against silver V players. Or worse.

As I said, and I'm sure EVERY game has something to the effect, but why exactly make it "hidden". Why not tell players "This is X. This is how you increase X". Why have this publicly displayed name (I'm fine with the hidden ELO of say (rough numbers of course) 1500 belonging to the "publicly displayed" Gold I and so on.

[Deleted]

It has something to do with their player behaviour team. Basically they did some research and decided that it would be easier to draw people into ranked games by giving them more short-term carrots to chase. Going up from Silver V to Silver IV feels good, especially after winning that promotion, so you'll prolly play some more to maybe get higher. Conversely, going from 1100 ELO to 1150 ELO doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment (random numbers just to illustrate the point). The whole system is designed around rewarding you one step at a time and encouraging you to play more. This may sound like a bad thing, but in essence nothing has changed. The game still uses the ELO system is pretty much the same way it used to, it just makes things a little harder when you're advancing past certain thresholds, in exchange for not letting you drop out of a league once you're in it.

[alturic]

It has something to do with their player behaviour team. Basically they did some research and decided that it would be easier to draw people into ranked games by giving them more short-term carrots to chase. Going up from Silver V to Silver IV feels good, especially after winning that promotion, so you'll prolly play some more to maybe get higher. Conversely, going from 1100 ELO to 1150 ELO doesn't feel like much of an accomplishment (random numbers just to illustrate the point). The whole system is designed around rewarding you one step at a time and encouraging you to play more. This may sound like a bad thing, but in essence nothing has changed. The game still uses the ELO system is pretty much the same way it used to, it just makes things a little harder when you're advancing past certain thresholds, in exchange for not letting you drop out of a league once you're in it.

See, I'm fine with a hidden ELO (which is nothing more than a number (for a computer to compute) hidden behind publicly displayed text) but to use it as a means to (for some reason) stack the deck against you is just... odd to me. There really seems to be no reason for it. THAT is what I'm trying to figure out, nothing more.

[Duilliath]

You might find this link relevant to your interest: http://www.reignofgaming.net/redtrac...ack-elo-for-s4