weapon speeds?

[Revolutions]

Do weapon speeds matter anymore? I.e. slower weaps will do better dps.

[Kael]

Do weapon speeds matter anymore? I.e. slower weaps will do better dps.

Weapon speeds absolutely matter, but primarily on a case by case basis. The short of it is:

Assassination and (99% of the time) subtlety use double daggers at all times, ever (required to mutilate, higher DPS for sub). Combat needs a 2.6 MH, and the OH 1.8 vs. 2.6 is variable by gearing options and particular encounter - highest available being the top priority.

[Revolutions]

what about a 1.8 vs a 1.7 speed assassin?

[Enhshamanlol]

what about a 1.8 vs a 1.7 speed assassin?

There no 1.7 daggers ingame.

[Warstar]

Weapon speeds absolutely matter, but primarily on a case by case basis. The short of it is:

Assassination and (99% of the time) subtlety use double daggers at all times, ever (required to mutilate, higher DPS for sub). Combat needs a 2.6 MH, and the OH 1.8 vs. 2.6 is variable by gearing options and particular encounter - highest available being the top priority.

I was under the assumption that for combat 2 slower weapons was just as viable as a slow mh and a dagger oh since that one talent that I can't remember the name of right now has a return on energy that's been normalized to being the same whether you use a fast or slow weapon. The biggest difference would be poison applications but at the same time killing spree would hit a lot harder with 2 slow weapons.

Also weapon speed doesn't really matter since as far as I can tell they only make weapons the same speed now a days anyways. Every dagger I've seen has been the same speed same with slower weapons. So outside of combat there really isn't much of a debate since it's kinda chosen for you. Sure you could use slow weapons for sub but then you can't back stab anymore so really you have to use daggers.

[Enhshamanlol]

Weapon speeds absolutely matter, but primarily on a case by case basis. The short of it is:

Assassination and (99% of the time) subtlety use double daggers at all times, ever (required to mutilate, higher DPS for sub). Combat needs a 2.6 MH, and the OH 1.8 vs. 2.6 is variable by gearing options and particular encounter - highest available being the top priority.

and as far as combat goes. i like double 2.6 alotttt shadowblade offhand dmg. with my current gear and a normal heroic 2.6 offhand it crits for 140k with trinket procs.

[Sesshou]

what about a 1.8 vs a 1.7 speed assassin?

Speed is irrelevant. Highest average hit is whats important in that area. Now you'd need to factor in the agi and secondary stats too if the average hits of the two weapons are really close.

[Revolutions]

There no 1.7 daggers ingame.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ropayne/simple

[Enhshamanlol]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ropayne/simple

Well. I didn't know the heroic sceno dagger was 1.7 99.9% of rogue daggers ingame are 1.8 now

[Shelly]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ropayne/simple

Swap hands on those. Highest damage range always goes on the main hand. Weapon speed was just a simple rule of thumb used to remember that.

If I remember correctly with rogues if you are using any "proc" venoms then you want the fastest dagger speed possible, but even that is trumped by weapon damage after a certain gear level. This is why something like the Librarian's Paper Cutter from the start of WotLK was still in use all the way into Ulduar as it had a speed of I want to say 1.3 or 1.4.

[Revolutions]

Swap hands on those. Highest damage range always goes on the main hand. Weapon speed was just a simple rule of thumb used to remember that.

If I remember correctly with rogues if you are using any "proc" venoms then you want the fastest dagger speed possible, but even that is trumped by weapon damage after a certain gear level. This is why something like the Librarian's Paper Cutter from the start of WotLK was still in use all the way into Ulduar as it had a speed of I want to say 1.3 or 1.4.

That's what I told him. But when he did he was pulling less dps. Maybe rng?

[Maelstrom51]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ropayne/simple

Just so you know, you really, really, REALLY want to swap your weapons. The difference in main hand weapon damage is immense, far more valuable than the benefit of the measly .1 faster attack speed in the offhand.

Edit: Sorry, I understand that's not you now. But yes he really wants his main hand to be his higher ilvl weapon. Shadowcraft shows a 4k dps increase just by swapping, which is pretty significant.

[Macor]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ropayne/simple

476 in MH while 516 in OH ?????
only by switching those you you should gain few K's dps

didn't saw few posts about switching weaps tho :P

[shadowboy]

There no 1.7 daggers ingame.

Wrong. Scenario and heroic scenario daggers are 1.7 speed.

- - - Updated - - -

Speed is irrelevant. Highest average hit is whats important in that area. Now you'd need to factor in the agi and secondary stats too if the average hits of the two weapons are really close.

This is only true for main hand. For offhand (for any of the specs) faster speed means more poison procs. (although for A, the offhand component of mutilate and for S the offhand component of killing spree modulate this effect somewhat).

[Kael]

If it was unclear, when I said "highest available" for combat's OH I meant highest itemlevel available for the OH, not highest weapon speed. Ilevel > stats > 2.6 vs. 1.8 by encounter (at least of last tier; if the gap is larger now for combat from 2.6 to 1.8, 2.6 may be the priority now).

For daggers, speed is irrelevant unless you've got a 517 Spiritsever you're not using the gem for and have a 516 Scenario dagger, simply because there's no set of 1.7s and 1.8s to pick between at the same level. Otherwise, ilevels proceed as normal - but if anyone has been using 2 517s and just grabbed a 516, I strongly suspect they're grabbing a 522+ in short order and don't reeeally need to know which one edges ahead.

[Sesshou]

This is only true for main hand. For offhand (for any of the specs) faster speed means more poison procs. (although for A, the offhand component of mutilate and for S the offhand component of killing spree modulate this effect somewhat).

True. I was posting under the assumption this was yet another 'which one of these weapons should I put in my main hand' thread though.

[Oggiva]

Do weapon speeds matter anymore? I.e. slower weaps will do better dps.

In main a hand slower weapons is going to increase your dps because of the increased damage on mutilate/dispatch, and in off-hand a faster weapon is going to increase your dps because of the static proc rate of deadly poison.

[Sesshou]

In main a hand slower weapons is going to increase your dps because of the increased damage on mutilate/dispatch

No, a weapon with higher average hit will increase your dps because of the reasons listed.

[Oggiva]

No, a weapon with higher average hit will increase your dps because of the reasons listed.

"The red car is faster than the blue car because it has a larger engine."
"No, the red car is faster because it's wheels spin faster."

Hint: Slower weapon speed increase the average damage on hit. dps = average_hit/weapon_speed, or average_hit = dps*weapon_speed. Dps and speed are the important stats on a weapon. min/max/average damage is just a result of the two.

[Maelstrom51]

"The red car is faster than the blue car because it has a larger engine."
"No, the red car is faster because it's wheels spin faster."

Hint: Slower weapon speed increase the average damage on hit. dps = average_hit/weapon_speed, or average_hit = dps*weapon_speed. Dps and speed are the important stats on a weapon. min/max/average damage is just a result of the two.

What you're saying may have some truth, but in your previous post you made a blanket statement saying slower main hand = better, which isn't necessarily true when considering different item levels.

Also, the relationship between the three stats is circular (each can be derived by looking at the other two), so saying one is less important than the others is a little naive.