[SimC] Action List - help wanted.

[Deleted]

SimulationCraft for doing good result need to be tuned a lot.
The action a player would do are define in a list of action with condition.

I propose to discuss here what can be do for make them better. You don't need to no how to write it, just describe how you think it should work and it will be tested. I really help a lot for optimizing rotation.
The new trinket are implemented.

Single target : should be OK
Cleave/AOE : some work is needed
Movement : fully functional.

Know bug : Alter time is on test (better implementation) with maybe some problem with Bloodlust.

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
actions.precombat+=/arcane_brilliance
actions.precombat+=/frost_armor
actions.precombat+=/rune_of_power
actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
actions.precombat+=/mirror_image

# Executed every time the actor is available.
actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react
actions+=/cancel_buff,name=alter_time,moving=1
actions+=/conjure_mana_gem,if=mana_gem_charges<3&target.debuff.invulnerable.react
actions+=/time_warp,if=target.health.pct<25|time>5
actions+=/mirror_image
actions+=/mana_gem,if=mana.pct<80&buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.alter_time.down&(buff.arcane_power.up|target.time_to_die<50)
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.alter_time.down&(buff.arcane_power.up|target.time_to_die<18)
actions+=/use_item,slot=hands,sync=alter_time_activate,if=buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/use_item,slot=hands,if=(cooldown.alter_time_activate.remains>45|target.time_to_die<25)&buf f.rune_of_power.remains>20
actions+=/rune_of_power,if=buff.rune_of_power.remains<cast_time
actions+=/rune_of_power,if=cooldown.arcane_power.remains=0&buff.rune_of_power.remains<buff.arcane_po wer.duration

actions+=/arcane_power,if=(buff.rune_of_power.remains>=buff.arcane_power.duration&buff.arcane_missil es.stack=2&buff.arcane_charge.stack>2)|target.time_to_die<buff.arcane_power.duration+5,mov ing=0

actions+=/alter_time,if=buff.alter_time.down&buff.arcane_power.up

actions+=/run_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>=6
actions+=/run_action_list,name=single_target,if=active_enemies<6

#AOE if more than 6 enemies
actions.aoe=flamestrike
actions.aoe+=/living_bomb,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>tick_time*3
actions.aoe+=/arcane_barrage,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack>=4
actions.aoe+=/arcane_explosion

#Single Target
actions.single_target=arcane_barrage,if=buff.alter_time.up&buff.alter_time.remains<2
actions.single_target+=/arcane_missiles,if=buff.alter_time.up
actions.single_target+=/arcane_blast,if=buff.alter_time.up
actions.single_target+=/arcane_missiles,if=(buff.arcane_missiles.stack=2&cooldown.arcane_power.remains>0)|(buff.ar cane_charge.stack>=4&cooldown.arcane_power.remains>8)
actions.single_target+=/living_bomb,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>tick_time*3
actions.single_target+=/arcane_barrage,if=buff.arcane_charge.stack>=4&mana.pct<95
actions.single_target+=/presence_of_mind
actions.single_target+=/arcane_blast

actions.single_target+=/arcane_barrage,moving=1
actions.single_target+=/fire_blast,moving=1
actions.single_target+=/ice_lance,moving=1

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
actions.precombat+=/arcane_brilliance
actions.precombat+=/molten_armor
actions.precombat+=/rune_of_power
actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
actions.precombat+=/mirror_image

# Executed every time the actor is available.
actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react
actions+=/cancel_buff,name=alter_time,moving=1
actions+=/conjure_mana_gem,if=mana_gem_charges<3&target.debuff.invulnerable.react
actions+=/time_warp,if=target.health.pct<25|time>5
actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.alter_time.down&target.time_to_die<45
actions+=/mirror_image
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.alter_time.down&target.time_to_die<18
actions+=/berserking,sync=alter_time_activate,if=buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,sync=alter_time_activate,if=buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/use_item,slot=hands,sync=alter_time_activate
actions+=/use_item,slot=hands,if=cooldown.alter_time_activate.remains>40|target.time_to_die<12


actions+=/rune_of_power,if=buff.rune_of_power.remains<cast_time&buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/rune_of_power,if=cooldown.alter_time_activate.remains=0&buff.rune_of_power.remains<6

actions+=/combustion,if=target.time_to_die<22
actions+=/combustion,if=dot.ignite.tick_dmg>=((3*action.pyroblast.crit_damage)*mastery_value*0.5)
actions+=/combustion,if=dot.ignite.tick_dmg>=((action.fireball.crit_damage+action.inferno_blast.crit _damage+action.pyroblast.hit_damage)*mastery_value*0.5)&dot.pyroblast.ticking&buff.alter_t ime.down&buff.pyroblast.down&buff.presence_of_mind.down
action+=/inferno_blast,if=active_enemies>1&dot.combustion.ticking

actions+=/alter_time,if=buff.alter_time.down&buff.pyroblast.react
actions+=/presence_of_mind,sync=alter_time_activate,if=buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/presence_of_mind,if=cooldown.alter_time_activate.remains>60|target.time_to_die<5

actions+=/flamestrike,if=active_enemies>=5

actions+=/pyroblast,if=buff.pyroblast.react|buff.presence_of_mind.up
actions+=/inferno_blast,if=buff.heating_up.react&buff.pyroblast.down
actions+=/living_bomb,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>tick_time*3
actions+=/fireball

actions+=/scorch,moving=1

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
actions.precombat+=/arcane_brilliance
actions.precombat+=/frost_armor
actions.precombat+=/water_elemental
actions.precombat+=/rune_of_power
actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
actions.precombat+=/mirror_image

# Executed every time the actor is available.
actions=counterspell,if=target.debuff.casting.react
actions+=/cancel_buff,name=alter_time,moving=1
actions+=/conjure_mana_gem,if=mana_gem_charges<3&target.debuff.invulnerable.react
actions+=/time_warp,if=target.health.pct<25|time>5
actions+=/mirror_image
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.icy_veins.up|target.time_to_die<18
actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.icy_veins.up|target.time_to_die<45

actions+=/rune_of_power,if=buff.rune_of_power.remains<cast_time&buff.alter_time.down
actions+=/rune_of_power,if=cooldown.icy_veins.remains=0&buff.rune_of_power.remains<20

actions+=/frozen_orb,if=!buff.fingers_of_frost.react
actions+=/icy_veins,if=(buff.brain_freeze.react|buff.fingers_of_frost.react)|target.time_to_die<22,m oving=0
actions+=/presence_of_mind,if=buff.icy_veins.up|cooldown.icy_veins.remains>15|target.time_to_die<15
actions+=/alter_time,if=buff.alter_time.down&buff.icy_veins.up

actions+=/flamestrike,if=active_enemies>=5

actions+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.alter_time.up&buff.brain_freeze.up
actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.alter_time.up&buff.fingers_of_frost.up
actions+=/living_bomb,cycle_targets=1,if=(!ticking|remains<tick_time)&target.time_to_die>tick_time*3
actions+=/frostfire_bolt,if=buff.brain_freeze.react&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>2
actions+=/ice_lance,if=buff.fingers_of_frost.react&cooldown.icy_veins.remains>2
actions+=/frostbolt

actions+=/fire_blast,moving=1
actions+=/ice_lance,moving=1

--- change ---
add: cast IB if more than 1 targets after combustion


- - - Updated - - -

My first Idea would be to see how to use T16's bonus.
I have some idea for Frost, but not really for Fire and Arcane.

[tolgag]

Inferno blast after combustion if there are more than 1 target .

edit:Also Ice Floes on Arcane Mage to improve moving dps.

[Deleted]

There are a lot of stuff to worry about in the fire rotation. I downloaded SimC just for fun again a few days ago, after not having used it since December or something. One of the first things i noticed in the action list was this.

"actions+=/combustion,if=dot.ignite.tick_dmg>=((action.fireball.crit_damage+action.inferno_blast.crit _damage+action.pyroblast.hit_damage)*mastery_value*0.5)&dot.pyroblast.ticking&buff.alter_t ime.down&buff.pyroblast.down&buff.presence_of_mind.down"

Now i am not into how action lists are set up, but to me this one seems to be the combustion outside of AT. goin from FB(crit)->Ib>(!pyro)>Combust Even if the pyro does not crit? No fire mage would ever do this as the ignite would contain inferno blast, FB crit, and pyro hit. And PoM is not used either.
should be something like FB till HS+HU >Fireball>PoM>!Pyro(hs)>!pyro(HS or use PoM)>PoM pyro>Combust.

Also why is there still this condition in combustion action list "&dot.pyroblast.ticking" Pyro Dot have not been part of combustion damage since 5.1(?) And if you action list using pyro for combustion build up, then the dot will always be there any way.

Any way i know it is problematic to action list fire properly because there are so many conditions to be considered, fx when to use the HS+HU and when not to, when to dot and just use HS(or hs>Dot), or use HS just before Evo and then HS again just after to keep ignite rolling etc. So i dont think we will ever get a really good tool in simC as the fire spec stands now.

also just remembered this one, you seem to be using RoP for every spec, i am guessing for simplicity. But evocation action list got minor flaws.

"actions+=/evocation,if=(buff.invokers_energy.down|mana.pct<20)&buff.alter_time.down"

Often when hero is used or i get multiple Meta gem procs i will be further down than 20% mana, often i use evocation on ~5% mana when it expires. The action list above would cause significant clipping of invokers energy at times. I would suggest to lower the % to 5, or if possible just make a condition that cast evocate if we dont have mana for next spell.

Any way that is what i got right now, and sorry if i misinterpreted some of the action list language as i have no real clue how they are set up.

[Deleted]

Thanks for explanation. I know I'm not an expert of Fire.

On Evocation/RoP, I post the "by default" action list but yes, having evocation casting for mana outside Arcane is strange. I will check it.

For Combustion, I view it like this :

1. dot.ignite.tick_dmg>=((action.fireball.crit_damage+action.inferno_blast.crit _damage+action.pyroblast.hit_damage)*mastery_value*0.5) check for ignite value. If ignite tick for more than the resulting ignite of a crit from both FB+IB and a normal damage. Keep in mind that Pyro! will be crit after every IB with T16.
2. &dot.pyroblast.ticking could be remove I think.
3. dot.ignite.tick_dmg>=((3*action.pyroblast.crit_damage)*mastery_value*0.5) tell to cast Combustion after 3 pyro!.

I will search the history of the #1 but it's a way to define when to cast combustion without being too delayed.
I'm open for every proposition.

I will run a first batch of test this sunday.

[Deleted]

Well you would not wanna combust if ignite is just = Fb+IB+pyro. You can do way way better, if that is the condition you might as well just cast combustion on cd. with current crit levels you should have ~2-4 pyro's in your non AT combusts, with the median being 3x(2x hs 1x PoM).

FB till HS+HU >Fireball>PoM>!Pyro(hs)>!pyro(HS or use PoM)>PoM pyro>Combust. <-- that is FB+3x pyro in the ignite. Being the median. Worst case scenario is 2xFB+2xPyro in the ignite. Best case scenario is 3x HS pyro and 1x PoM pyro in the ignite.

I understand the #3 thats why i did not comment on that, as 3x pyro crit is properly a good thing to shoot for. Maybe add in a condition for having the new tier2 piece there(stacking haste on pyro's) as we will properly reforge haste around that for combustion breakpoints.

[Deleted]

in #1, the FB is crit. globally, it's a FB>HS>HU>IB>pyro!
But your true, with our crit levele and T16, it's possible to have 2 pyro and IB in one ignite. I don't thing it's possible to have 2*FB+2*pyro in the same ignite. It's duration is too short.

I will try to see what can I do with it this weekend.

- - - Updated - - -

@tolgag: Ice Floe. Ok, I will test it. Maybe trying some specific rotation action list.

[Deleted]

I dont understand where the HS came from ? from the action list it is FB crit(HU)>IB(HS)>!pyro. Also we dont ever want IB in our ignite, it lowers the ignite significantly.

Also in your case of FB>HS>HU>IB>pyro! The IB would munch 1x pyro. because you have hs+hu and then do IB, your left with 1 munched pyro and only HS left.

You might be right about my worst case scenario of 2x fb2x pyro, though, i was just thinking going fb>!pyro>pom-pyro and we would still have some left from the FB before the FB>!pyro. In either case 1xfb+2x pyro >>> fb>IB>pyro by miles. And as i said ~60% of the time we get Fb>2x HS>pom pyro. Atm we can hold 4x pyro in our ignite.

All this is in current gear, from ~ilvl 530+(or when ever fire gets viable) and have nothing to do with tier 16. Some are even arguing just using tier15. As tier16 bonuses right now is really bad, besides maybe the 2piece, and only because of higher ilvl as the set bonus it self is worse.

[Deleted]

I really thing you underlook how IB giving pyro 100% crit is enormous.
With the way Ignite work, casting IB for forcing a pyro crit will lead in chaining 2 or 3 pyro easily. The time you cast your 3 pyro, IB's ignite should have end leaving you with only Pyro's ignite because ignite is only 4s (+ rolled damage).

I will do some test with different setup and put number.

- - - Updated - - -

OK, I will go for some test. I will provide result for Sunday.

I will keep the 3*pyro.crit and I will test :

1. FB.crit+IB.crit+Pyro.crit (T16)
2. FB.crit+2*pyro

Actual rotation is :

1. Pyro when PoM
2. Pyro when HS
3. IB when HU
4. FB

Any other proposition, like holding FB+Pyro for some condition ?

[Deleted]

First of all i am not underestimating how much 100% crit on pyro is. But you are underestimating the impact IB have on ignite, and the fact that in current gear I have around 69% crit, after crit suppresion on pyro.

**TLDR** suggestions to action list in last two paragraphs.

The way you wrote it, and the way your action list is, it is not possible to roll 2x HS pyro's, as your not using hs+hu->fb>pyro, but just fb(crit)HU->IB-HS>pyro. If pyro crit your just left with HU.

Also the way you wrote it IB was definitely inside ignite. btw ignite window is 6s(yes? we do like the rolling damage as well, if it was only 4sec 4xpyro's would not fit in 1 ignite). And no matter if IB ensures pyro crit we will not ever use it in a way that makes it be part of the ignite, if IB is your last spell before starting Pyro chain it will be, unless you get 4x pyro's, but your setup is not able to generate 2x HS.

Now i dont know how long the effect of IB buffing Pyro last. But the only way we are going to make benefit of it is if it last ~5+ sec. Otherwise its useless for combustion purposes.(nice during normal roration, though it is still really crappy for a last tier 4piece)

-Remember all this is for Non-AT combustions
-Base line combustion built up:

FB (crit) -HU
IB (crit) -HS
FB spam till crit - HS+hu
Finish FB in cast >pom> !Pyro (crit 100% from IB) -HS (+hu if FB crit Scenario 3)

-Scenario 1 (3x pyro+fb in ignite)
!pyro (crit) -Hu
Pom-Pyro (non crit) -Blank

-scenario 2 (4x pyro in ignite)
!pyro (crit) -Hu
Pom-Pyro (crit) -HS
!pyro

-Scenario 3 Fb crits -HS+hu (4xpyro in ignite)
!pyro (crit) - HS
!pyro (crit) - HU
PoM-pyro (If crit -HS, but you should not use this as you already have 3-4x crit pyro's in ignite, and it can not get any larger)

There are more scenarios but ill stop here It is really only the part before the scenarios that is relevant, this way IB would be a long way away from our ignite, using it just before pyro will include it in ignite.


Now as for general use of HS+HU->FB>!pyro, use it all the time, and here is the problem. For some people(lower end gear) it will be better to stop trying to get HS+HU, when IB is about to come off cooldown again, for others it is simply not worth it, you roll it out and when your out you use IB on your next FB crit and start rolling again.

For the lower end gear there will be times where you can not fish out the HU by spamming FB before IB comes off cooldown again.

Personally I often go from Applying bomb and just roll fb>pyro>fb>pyro> and i get into trouble because bomb is running out and i have HS+hu, if i just finish my fireball and DoT there is a big chance of munching HS's. so i have to finish fb>pyro>bomb resulting in some downtime on bomb, if I am not aware ~4s before bomb expires. I am not saying this happens all the time, but at least every 3-4 bomb application I have this kind of "problem".

How much you should use HS+HU depends so heavenly on gear, at some point you just realise that you aint using IB that much any more. I think it is hard to configure a set action list for it. But maybe you could try and make it use the HS+hu>FB>pyro when IB is on cooldown, and if IB have less than 2s left on CD, Use pyro, so IB can be used for next HU. Though that also has its problems as it will result in HU munching in ~35% of the cases.(fb crit - pyro non crit).
And you would need to set a condition to use HS before it expires as low geared fire mages can actually have HS expire if they just keep fishing for hu.

As for the combustion action list you should try and simulate what i wrote above. fb crit>ib>fb spam till hs+hu>fb>!pyro>use all following HS>PoM-pyro>combust, If only a total of 2xHS is used before PoM-pyro, and the PoM generate HS, use that HS as well(Scenario 2)


Edit: I noticed "Actual rotation is :

1 Pyro when PoM"

That PoM should of cause be used as described in above base line combustion built up. Never use PoM pyro just to use it. It will always come off cooldown ~6-10s before combustion, as you use it when entering AT.

[Deleted]

Any normal Simcraft for 5.4 Bis gear ?

[Deleted]

I will read all of this tomorrow and i will what can be tested.
I confirm you that IB have DPET weaker than FB but the reason to cast it is not in here.

I think you can understand how powerful is to have a way to guarantee pyro to proc because of your crit level.
All previous simulation show that using IB result in better average damage with less RNG. All other methode have a lot more RNG who can result in bigger damage or lesser.

For expiring HS, I can see why the action list won't use it. When the higher in the list an action is, the more important his priority is. So HS-pyro will always be cast preferably of refreshing bomb. The same for HU.

When I play fire, I prefer to cast FB+pyro when I have an HS because IB cd will end during it and I can chain 3 pyro because of the T16. I will work on it this night even if I don't have my PC.

And tomorrow, I will propose to list to test: one with IB and one without it (or nearly).

- - - Updated - - -

@titanie: what are "normal" SimC?

For BiS list, we will need to have stat weigh to choose the best gear and optimizing it.
Until tuning is done, BiS will have to wait.

[NeverStop]

I will read all of this tomorrow and i will what can be tested.
I confirm you that IB have DPET weaker than FB but the reason to cast it is not in here.

I think you can understand how powerful is to have a way to guarantee pyro to proc because of your crit level.
All previous simulation show that using IB result in better average damage with less RNG. All other methode have a lot more RNG who can result in bigger damage or lesser.

For expiring HS, I can see why the action list won't use it. When the higher in the list an action is, the more important his priority is. So HS-pyro will always be cast preferably of refreshing bomb. The same for HU.

When I play fire, I prefer to cast FB+pyro when I have an HS because IB cd will end during it and I can chain 3 pyro because of the T16. I will work on it this night even if I don't have my PC.

And tomorrow, I will propose to list to test: one with IB and one without it (or nearly).

- - - Updated - - -

@titanie: what are "normal" SimC?

For BiS list, we will need to have stat weigh to choose the best gear and optimizing it.
Until tuning is done, BiS will have to wait.

I'm still not sure about IB usage with T16 4-piece. Will we want to use IB if we have a Pyro! but no HU (and no other spells travelling in the air)?

For example look at this picture: http://i.imgur.com/RyOL97g.jpg

I have Pyro!. I just cast FB and while FB is in the air I refresh my bomb. The 1 sec bomb GCD ends right as FB hits the target and FB doesn't crit. Ignoring the fact that Combustion and PoM are coming off CD, should I:

1. Cast IB then FB + Pyro!
2. Cast FB until I get HU and then FB + Pyro!

Right now I only cast IB if I have HU to turn it into a Pyro!, but with the T16 4-piece are we going to want to use IB more often, such as to get a HU when we have a Pyro!

[Deleted]

OK. I'm actually running normal action list and one adding :

actions+=/inferno_blast,if=buff.pyroblast.react&buff.heating_up.down
actions+=/pyroblast,if=buff.pyroblast.react|buff.presence_of_mind.up
actions+=/inferno_blast,if=buff.heating_up.react&buff.pyroblast.down

as it's the best usage I've found about it: using IB after HS to have HS+HU then cast Pyro!. Because it will create it will result in another HS with 50% chance leading to a third pyro!

result soon

- - - Updated - - -

here the result :

• normal rotation -- 258k -- 145 FB / 33 IB / 106 Pyro
• modified rotation -- 253k -- 144 FB / 42 IB / 98 Pyro

The difference are on the
>> "Potent flame" up-time : 77% versus 74%. 5th stack have 13.3% vs 9.7% up-time.
>> "Fiery Adept" is 9.75% vs 11.9%

I'm running stat scaling and plop to see if there's any other thing.
And after that, I will go into combustion launching condition.

- - - Updated - - -

Here some interesting result:

• Int - 7.76
• SP - 5.84
• Hit - 9.39
• Crit - 4.94
• Haste - 5.12
• Mastery - 5.94

So it seem that the T16' bonuses have reduce crit value by a lot. I will check if there's no bug.

[Sombrelune]

I don't know if it s revelant but comparing, fire scaling factors and frost ones it seems that like before fire worse stat is almost two times better than frost best stat.

[NeverStop]

OK. I'm actually running normal action list and one adding :


as it's the best usage I've found about it: using IB after HS to have HS+HU then cast Pyro!. Because it will create it will result in another HS with 50% chance leading to a third pyro!

result soon

- - - Updated - - -

here the result :

• normal rotation -- 258k -- 145 FB / 33 IB / 106 Pyro
• modified rotation -- 253k -- 144 FB / 42 IB / 98 Pyro

The difference are on the
>> "Potent flame" up-time : 77% versus 74%. 5th stack have 13.3% vs 9.7% up-time.
>> "Fiery Adept" is 9.75% vs 11.9%

I'm running stat scaling and plop to see if there's any other thing.
And after that, I will go into combustion launching condition.

- - - Updated - - -

Here some interesting result:

• Int - 7.76
• SP - 5.84
• Hit - 9.39
• Crit - 4.94
• Haste - 5.12
• Mastery - 5.94

So it seem that the T16' bonuses have reduce crit value by a lot. I will check if there's no bug.

Are you checking if you already have a Fireball in the air before you cast FB, because you shouldn't cast IB if that's the case as it might overwrite a HU from FB. The only time I would cast IB to turn HS into HS + HU is if I just had to refresh my bomb or I just had to Evocation.

For example:

I have Pyro! and bomb is at 3 seconds remaining. I cast FB, right after FB goes out I cast bomb. I find out FB didn't crit right after the GCD from bomb finishes. I cast IB.

This might be something that's very hard to sim because I don't know if Simcraft handles HS the same way as the game.

However, I do think casting IB as much as possible with the T16 4-piece should be a DPS increase:

Casting IB when you have a Pyro! guarantees another Pyro!, so the HUs from those IBs never get wasted.
IB increases the average crit chance of your Pyros
So higher Pyro crit chance + more Pyro! should outweight IB's lower DPET compared to FB

[Deleted]

For IB, it's what I through too. I will test to use it on cooldown.

For ghost FB, it can't be the case. SimC is put on Elite: no "human" latency.

- - - Updated - - -

I have re-check how IB work with HU and there's no problem here.
But I have found out that using IS for generating HU while HS is up result in more than 9 over-written HS.
I think it's part of why it's a 2% dps loss. I'm searching how to resolve it

[Abraxis]

For Fire and the new setubonus you won't change playstyle.

For Rotation:

Invoker's up
Pyromainac up (magebomb, but pyrmaniac lasts longer and sometimes u do FB+Pyro before refreshing magebomb if pyromaniac is up)
FB until HU -> ONE FB -> IB -> FB till HS/HU -> ONE FB -> Pyro

Never do IB with HS up. Just do IB as u see above. There is one exception:

You always want 4pc Buff + HU/HS up for building Combustion.

Concerning 2pc: For that u won't change playstyle as well, using HS without HU and FB+Pyro is just gambling whether the buff expires now or 5sec later. Only if u have already 4+ Stacks u can use HS to keep highstacks up 5sec longer but not usual.

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Are you checking if you already have a Fireball in the air before you cast FB, because you shouldn't cast IB if that's the case as it might overwrite a HU from FB. The only time I would cast IB to turn HS into HS + HU is if I just had to refresh my bomb or I just had to Evocation.

For example:

I have Pyro! and bomb is at 3 seconds remaining. I cast FB, right after FB goes out I cast bomb. I find out FB didn't crit right after the GCD from bomb finishes. I cast IB.

This might be something that's very hard to sim because I don't know if Simcraft handles HS the same way as the game.

However, I do think casting IB as much as possible with the T16 4-piece should be a DPS increase:

Casting IB when you have a Pyro! guarantees another Pyro!, so the HUs from those IBs never get wasted.
IB increases the average crit chance of your Pyros
So higher Pyro crit chance + more Pyro! should outweight IB's lower DPET compared to FB

I think this is a very important point. And as u wrote very hard to sim. And for me that's the point why i DON'T think using IB as much as possible is an DPS increase. U cannot queue FBs if u do so because if they're in the air when u do IB after HS u'll waste an GCD and the HU is gone.

If u want to use IB as much as possible for example with HS up and u don't wanna lose the HU it has to be like this.

HS up -> stopcast -> IB -> Pyro

because if HS comes up and u cast the queued FB:

- if it crits u have HS/HU as well without IB and ur chance for getting another Pyro is high as well if u do ONE FB+Pyro after that

- if u use IB and the FB dont crit HU is gone
- if u use IB and the FB crits u wasted a HS

So u wasted a GCD and a HU or HS but u have 4pc buff up -- but u have no HU/HS just HS

And this FB in the air, is exactly why i won't change playstyle and i don't think IB on CD is an Increase.

I am not native speaking english, hopefully i comes out the right way what i wanted to point out.

[Deleted]

I will make it short :
The FB+pyro was test in 5.3 and result in a DPS loss in average because it have a lot more RNG than using Hu>IB>pyro!
But I know it could be easier to play.

In 5.4, problem will be solve. Every Pyro after IB will be critical resulting in HU.
HU>IB>pyro!>HU

For generating HU with IB, the number of HS is better but I will have to do more test in PTR to check why I have 9 times more refresh. The best will simply to keep using it on every HU.

[Abraxis]

The FB+pyro was test in 5.3 and result in a DPS loss in average because it have a lot more RNG than using Hu>IB>pyro!

Was discussed after Lhivera's Sims concerning that topic. But as far as i remember, never clear if the action list was right and iirc lhivera self twittert that he did some faults with this sim.

So i am very interessted in a proof of this claim, because by my own experience and testing the opposite is reality.

And don't forget it's about HS/HU up with FB+Pyro.

IMO the actual rotation with HU/HS camping is hard to sim and i don't blindly trust sims concerning that topic.

The best will simply to keep using it on every HU.

For sure it is the best way to use it as much as possible when JUST HU is up. But u should always queue a FB and never stopcast.

[Deleted]

As of now, there's some correction in work on SimC for improving Alter Time/Bloodlust interaction. So, I won't do any testing before this (ready for the end of the week ?).

But to be sure we speak about the same things, it should be something like that :

1. cast FB+Pyro! if HS and HU
2. cast Pyro! if HU remaining < FB.cast_time
3. cast IB if HU

compared to normal:

1. cast Pyro! if HS or PoM
2. cast IB if HU

I have tried this but it result in a lot of HS refresh (9 versus 1 on 500s fight)

1. cast IB if HS
2. cast Pyro! if HS
3. cast IB if HU

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It's to not that :

• with T16, every the next Pyro (in 15s) after IB is a Crit
• you always cast an FB in between Pyro!. You never chain Pyro!, only during AT.