Advice for my Warrior. 2v2

[Mihalik]

First thing first. I'm not some super duper uber Warrior. I'm more of the Dragon Slayer kind, but I never shy away from some PvP. And I am not terribad either, but I am sure there are many other much better players of every class out there.

This season the max Arena rating I hit with my mate was 1700ish. But then we literally hit a brick wall. My mate has a Tyranical geared Resto Druid and a mostly Malevolent geared Priest.

But now we keep coming up against Double DPS Ret Paladins, Elemental Shamans, BM Hunters, (often paired up with Ferals) and it feels like there is nothing we can do to win.

100k Hammers by Paladins, Never ending CC from Hunters, Elemental Shammies melting down your face in 4-5 seconds while backpedaling without using any hardcasts.

Any advice on talents or tactics to be used against,

Feral
Elemental Shaman
Ret Paladin
BM Hunter.

We play Warrior and Restro Druid or Disc Priest.

My Armory by the way - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Mihalik/simple

P.S I use Dragon Roar mostly for World PvP and in Arena for burst against Rogues/Boomkins/Double Melee.

[Decorpse]

Ferals are so op theres not a real solid counter to them imo. Theyre tanky, constant pressure, good burst, strong cc.
Ele shaman youll need to silence or cyclone him during Ascendance (burst)
Same against pally when he popps wings.
BM hunter youll have to safeguard your healer during scatter so you can eat the trap.
Youll need to get good at fearing healer/off target at the right time (before u burst) and have your druid cyclone x3 off your fear. If you dont kill him during burst, have druid cyclone the kill target 3 times so he cant get heals and since clone is dr'd on off target.
Dont pop defensives unless your healer is in a cc chain and need you to.
Have your druid open with cat stun/cyclone. It will usally force an early trinket if youre putting out some damage.
Communication is huge. Dont los your healer when you need a heal, your healer needs to call when hes in a cc chain that he cant get out of so u can use defensives, he'll have to be fast in calling for safeguard against hunters when they scatter trap.

[Spectral]

When you say "never ending CC from Hunters", what should be happening against Hunters is that when you see the Scatter Shot, you Intervene your healer, and eat the trap. Your healer dispels you, and the Hunter now lacks CC for a bit (unless he burns Readiness). Hunters, by any measure, are a difficult opponent at the moment. When they Stampede, you NEED to fear those extra pets, they'll absolutely eat you for breakfast otherwise. Don't forget Die by the Sword as an effective defensive CD against them. Try to line up Shockwave to catch their pet and their teammate to give you the short CD. If the Hunter's pet is overextending, kill it.

Against Elemental Shaman, you have to stay on them. If you see Ascendance, you either need to stun them immediately or run out of LoS, they'll surely global you otherwise. They're spectacularly dangerous with their RNG burst, but ultimately, it's difficult for them to consistently count on damage outside of Ascendance. Do NOT interrupt Lightning Bolt, this will allow them to free cast Lava Burst and/or Elemental Blast directly in your face. Save that interrupt. Plan on using your CDs when they don't have Ascendance; being forced to run away during Avatar sucks.

Rets have generally unimpressive damage mitigation - jumping on them hard early and forcing a bubble is typically your best bet. Shatter the bubble and go to work. I find them most difficult to deal with at a bit higher rating when they're smarter about kiting when needed, unleash disgusting burst, and offheal effectively. At ~1600-1700, they're mostly just going to try to burst you, and if it fails, you'll win. When you see wings, make sure you're in Defensive Stance, pop Shield Wall if needed, Rallying cry, etc.

I don't have any real advice against Feral. They eat me on my Warrior. They're just... better at everything.

Against double DPS, you should almost always be using Shockwave for the stun; slowing your opponents damage down is crucial. You'll win any outlast game, as you're the one with the healer.

Warrior will be much stronger in 5.4, FWIW.

[Decorpse]

When you say "never ending CC from Hunters", what should be happening against Hunters is that when you see the Scatter Shot, you Intervene your healer, and eat the trap. Your healer dispels you, and the Hunter now lacks CC for a bit (unless he burns Readiness). Hunters, by any measure, are a difficult opponent at the moment. When they Stampede, you NEED to fear those extra pets, they'll absolutely eat you for breakfast otherwise. Don't forget Die by the Sword as an effective defensive CD against them. Try to line up Shockwave to catch their pet and their teammate to give you the short CD. If the Hunter's pet is overextending, kill it.
Warrior will be much stronger in 5.4, FWIW.

A healer thats not cc'd can easily heal through stampede, esp since they nerfed it.
Stampede just isnt that great anymore, would be a waste of a fear if your healer's not in a cc chain.
Just dont hit him during deterrence, after deter, they drop like a sack of potatoes.
Killing his pet is always good esp if u can pull it los.
ANd yes, interveneing ur healer when hes in scatter will help immensely.
Ive seen warriors eat every single scatter trap my hunter partner put on the healer.
Do that and kill pet now and then and the hunter will pretty much give up.

[Spectral]

A healer thats not cc'd can easily heal through stampede, esp since they nerfed it.

Just to be clear, I was assuming that this was a circumstance where his healer was either CC'ed or was working on setting up his own CC. There's not very many things that kill someone through a freecasting healer (Ele if they get incredible RNG during Ascendance, and I think that's about it?), I thought that went without saying.

Ive seen warriors eat every single scatter trap my hunter partner put on the healer.

What's obnoxious are the unusually good Hunters that bait the Intervene with a Scatter, Disengage root both the Warrior and Healer, and then trap the healer while the Warrior is caught in roots.

[Decorpse]

Seems hard to pull off since the warrior would basically be ontop of the healer in roots, but yeah it could work sometimes.
Frost mage deepfreeze-burst is pretty insane too, maybe even moreso than ele ascencance
The druid can get off some good heals during the 1st and 2nd cyclone so if hes setting up a chain, u should still be getting heals

[H3llhog]

There's some really nice suggestions here.

As a warrior myself, the class I had most difficult with it's feral druid, no matter if he's with a healer or another DPS (but especially if its two DPS, that burst it's just horrible).

[Decorpse]

Yeah, against a feral its just a matter of cc'ing him as much as possible and hope hes not that good lol

[Spectral]

Seems hard to pull off since the warrior would basically be ontop of the healer in roots, but yeah it could work sometimes.
Frost mage deepfreeze-burst is pretty insane too, maybe even moreso than ele ascencance
The druid can get off some good heals during the 1st and 2nd cyclone so if hes setting up a chain, u should still be getting heals

Yeah, the difference is that the DF can at least be dispelled. I suppose you can dispel Flame Shock at well, but it'll be back shortly. Both have high instagib potential though.

Concur regarding a CC'ing Druid. My experience was that the issue on Druid is catching up if you're behind on heals (and Tree is already burned); when you're controlling the match, they play like a dream. Which, going back to the OP's circumstance, is important to think about - if you're running with a Druid, you need to be thinking about applying consistent pressure, staying ahead of the opponent. If they flip a fight and run a chain on your Druid, he may have trouble getting you back up, so be ready to play defensively if he's CC'ed.

- - - Updated - - -

As a warrior myself, the class I had most difficult with it's feral druid, no matter if he's with a healer or another DPS (but especially if its two DPS, that burst it's just horrible).

Yeah, I was trying to deal with a Ret/Feral team the other day and shit, they just hit so hard. Conceptually, I know what I'm supposed to do, but I couldn't pull it off.

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, much of the advice come 5.4 for Warriors will be, "Slam things in the face. Hard. Until they die."

[Decorpse]

Yeah Double hybrid dps classes are pretty tough if they know what theyre doing.
Id say the weakest out of all the hybrid dps classes (if being played with another hybrid dps) is shadow priests. They drop pretty easy.
Boomie can easily go with a non hybrid dps class since they can pretty much heal like an actual healer when they need to.

[Mihalik]

Thank you for the tips so far.

I will have to discuss with my healer certain things we do. I think we use his CC's too defensively.

[Decorpse]

Youre welcome.
Yes its always better to be using them offensively when possible since that will basically put u guys in control of the fight.

[joppas]

You're going to want to make a macro to intervene/safeguard your partner if there's a hunter on the opposing team and eat the traps. Kiting behind a pillar out of los and than killing the hunter pet if bm would nerf he's damage quite alot. If you end up killing the pet i would focus the hunter while he's trying to res hes pet and just cc the feral, tho the ferals gonna be the one healing the hunter so ofc situation may vary.

Fighting 2 dpsers is alot about surviving their burst which you know is going to be incoming. So pop defensive or start kiting when you see cds being used.
Dont pop trinket on stupid shit.

Going up against hybrids is a real nightmare this season with insane burst and great healing.

I wouldnt go with dragon roar, its great for cd pops when it crits for 160k but shockwave just to good to pass up.

[Deleted]

U really need to read up on Macros and cooldown Timing because its kinda amazing to get stuck at 1700 rating

Or buy an Skill Capped account they have pretty good warrior tutorials there on basic things like Dmg rotation when to pop swifty n stuff


and Try this next time Charge Kolossus Shockwave popswifty at the same time and mortal stike and overpower and hs if u got exess rage

when ure friend is getting scatterd he needs to yell SCATTER on skype at the same time u hit ure safeguard/intervene macro

[Proudsnout]

I occassionally play the same setup as you do in 2s around 1950-2k MMR.

First of both of you have horrible PvP talents, PvP is NOT about sustained but around burst in burst windows and about control. Spec Avatar and Shockwave for 2s (every game, no exceptions) to be able to control your opponents much better. Bloodbath is okay against healer/dps setups when you know there are a lot of defensives to burn through (on their side). Otherwise Shockwave/Avatar.

Try to use shockwave on both targets, or ideally when the zoo is out on a player+ zoo so you have the 20s CD on it (instead of 40). Glyph wise get rid of Unending Rage, that's PVE only bullshit atm. Get Blitz, MS, Rude Interruption or something else that fits your liking but not Unending Rage.

Against caster orientated setups (such as elementals) go with Disrupting Shout. I'm also more a fan of the Root in the third talent tier than Piercing Howl but that's preference.

As far as your druid goes, he has a lot to change:

First he should always take NS (preferably for clones, heals if no other option available), he should also use Typhoon and Incarnation as a Resto Druid. Especially in 2s Incarnation lasts quite long and you should not be able to die when he has it up (granted he can avoid CC). Incarnation also allows you to play more offensively when it's up as the druid has more time to cast Clones and has an easier time keeping you up, so use that momentum to push.

Glyph wise for druids, he kind of needs: BARKSKIN!! This glyph makes barkskin a better defensive than for instance your shield wall and only on a minute cooldown, it's crazy not to have it!

He also needs to replace Wild Growth as that's just useless, I suggest taking the extra range on Cyclone glyph instead.

As far as tactics go:

Vs Feral: At the moment feral is the best DPS for 2s. Period. Warrior/Rdruid should not win vs Feral/Disc for instance but ofc you can try. What I usually do in that setup as a warrior is sit on the priest and let my druid control the Feral (he rotates Disorienting Roar - Clone- Hibernate - Pushback - Symbiosis Fear, with my double shockwaves and Fears). This requires your druid to be pretty confident with his playstyle tho, so it's normal that he won't be able to do this from the start. Meanwhile your job is to either OOM the disc (well played resto druids never OOM in 2s) or force a kill. Try to Thunder Clap his Spectral Guise right away and make sure you keep MS rolling. Never use Overpower and only use Slam, because Overpower is not worth the rage cost versus the priest shields. Try to burn like in PVE with pumping all rage on Slams while the C-Smash debuff is up.

Make sure you communicate when you are going Battle Stance with your healer (you'll take more damage but the rage is quite handy to force CDs).

Vs Elemental Shaman:
As a warrior always sit on the shaman, 24/7. Spec Disrupting Shout and Rotate Pummel/Disrupting Shout and Shockwave/Charge to stop his casts. Meanwhile your healer needs to dispel every Flame Shock on you and preferably himself too while Cloning the other player in the team. If for some reason the Elemental faked you or you don't have anything to Interrupt with and he pops Ascendance, Leap back behind a pillar and kite it out until you have interrupts ready again. If the elemental plays Elemental Blast, that's your first priority to kick, Lava Burst second and if you still have Interrupts left, use on Lightning Bolt. The elemental will hate his life and you should be able to do tons of damage in battle stance.

Vs Ret Paladin:
Always go on the Ret. Regardless what he plays with. Take disrupting Shout again. Stay defensive stance all game, if you have Rage problems take Glyph of Bull Rush and go Juggernaught. If the ret plays with a healer you should be able to outpressure the Ret (they take a fair amount of warrior damage) in the long run. Use Die By the Sword smart (preferably on Wings) and use Disarm a lot (especially if he has no weapon chain). If the Ret plays with a Hunter, stay in Safeguard Range of your healer and watch for Traps (most of the time with Ret/Hunter this will be of Fist of Justice, so keep an eye out!) If he Traps and you're not Rooted, Leap back and if you are rooted Safeguard Back. Put Spell Reflection on if you're on the trap spot to save your healer a GCD to dispel. Go back on the Ret after the Trap is landed. Your druid should NOT hold Incarnation and use it on the opener (they will pop their CDs ealy) Make sure both of you have HOTS rolling and remember, the longer the game lasts, the worse it gets for them. Another Solid Trick is to NS clone the Ret when he pops CDs, he will trinket that so just Disarm/Fear/Shockwave him right after (as he will be forced to sit that).

Vs BM hunter:
Again watch for Traps. Do not ever use Safeguard offensively to stay on the hunter but make sure you keep it for when he's trapping. Safeguard healer + Spell Reflect when you see the trap! If you're not Rooted, leaping healer is the better option. Stay Defensive stance, fight with Juggernaught and Bull Rush to make up for the rage gain. Expect the game to be long, but long games are good for warrior/rdruid. Again your druid needs to use Incarnation to counter the hunter his CDs, not when you're in trouble. Rdruid is a healer that needs to stay ahead of the game and anticipate what is coming, it's not a reactive healer like for instance Rshaman is.


This should have helped, good luck now!

[Deleted]

I dont agree with not using Overpower since it reduces MS cooldown wich u need to get rage

plus if u use hs strike glyph u can save 7 rage on harmstring and not to forget hs doesnt have gcd

+ overpower has 60% more crit chance