Vanguard = Mele range?

[Wirzy]

So I decided to create a trooper and I am at lvl 13 as a Vanguard. But it seems that the vanguard is not a ranged class and I have to go on mele range for some habilities. Mele range while carrying a gun is stupid IMO.

I dont like that and I want to know how is the class designed for max level, or should i re-roll to another ranged class?

Also, do i unlock other races with a subscription?

[RohanV]

1. The vanguard is a short-range class. Most of the time it is pretty much a melee class, but is also good up till 10m away. (Regular ranged classes are usually 30m away.) Vanguard is a tank class, and all the tank class are effectively melee classes.

If you want to play a ranged trooper, I would suggest going with the Commando. Commando is heals or dps.

2. If you subscribe, the "base" races for each class are all unlocked. When you reach 50 with a given race, it unlocks that race for all other classes. I.e. If you get a 50 Sith Warrior, you can then make a Sith Jedi Knight.

Otherwise, you have to spend Cartel Coins to unlock races. I believe you can also purchase unlocks on the GTN (which is the Auction House of TOR, on the fleet).

[WarpedAcorn]

So the Vanguard is a pretty cool concept. They actually have abilities that function at all ranges. Some are long range, some are mid range, and some are short range. Mostly, they function best in melee to mid range. This gives them a small advantage over pure melees since they don't have to sit right on top of an enemy. At Max level the class is designed to function as either a tank or as a "bruiser" style in-your-face damage dealer.

For pure long range play, I would suggest the Commando, Gunslinger, or Jedi Sage.

[mknele]

Vanguard is really fun class to play, well at least for me, leveling is really easy with vanguard also, because, you just can't die

And if you are little patient, just wait for little higher levels when you get storm, then fun begins.

[Buff]

I wouldnt reroll right away if I was you. You're still early in the levels, and havent experienced what a vanguard can do.
Vanguard is a whole new concept of class, which I havent experienced in any other mmo before (not ranged, not melee, but in between). They get great fun abilities (pull, Slow-break and immunity (fantastic for huttball running), ranged taunts and guard (to reduce incoming damage on friendly players in pvp). And they are a breeze to level with. Apart from Commando (which is the other trooper advanced class), it just feel like another turret class (think elemental shaman).

My advice, is to keep playing the vanguard a little, get the feel of it, and maybe you'll find out how fun they actually are. I actually shared the same view as you in the start of SWTOR, the class seemed boring at first glance, but then I ended up trying one, and leveled him all the way to 55 and stuck by.

[Razael]

Vanguard / Powertech are really fun classes to play, the concept and the gameplay around them is awesome. Not quite full melee. Not quite full ranged. Which leaves the feeling of really playing a Soldier, moving in , out , over the combat field.

[Stormcall]

Vanguard is basically a melee class that can still do damage outside melee range. You need to be in melee to maximize your damage, but if you have to stay out of melee for a bit, you can still do some damage at least. If you really don't want to be in melee at all, yes, you need to reroll.

[ldev]

which I havent experienced in any other mmo before (not ranged, not melee, but in between)

Paladin, DK?..

[Revik]

As people have mentioned it is an inbetween class. It is a class that you generally want to be just outside of melee range 5-10 meters but close enough to get in quick hard hitting melee attacks like stock strike and/or gut then get back out of melee.

It is a versatile class. You have some long range moves like hammer shot, sticky grenade, and high impact bolt. You generally use these moves as you are closing in on a target. Then when they are within your killzone (< 10 meters) you give them everything else you got.

Personally I like the class and there are some up and coming tweaks in 2.4 which should make them more viable.

- - - Updated - - -

Paladin, DK?..

This is inaccurate. Those are melee classes with some ranged abilities. The primary difference is that with a pally or DK once you're in melee range there is almost never a reason for you to not want to be out of melee range unless you are deciding to run. Vanguards want to be mostly out of melee range but close enough to shoot in and out of melee to get off your melee abilities.

Does that make more sense now?

[ldev]

DKs and pallies and even rogues also kite warriors... Come to think now, even mop rogues are like vanguards. )

Vanguard is melee with some ranged abilities, period.

[Revik]

DKs and pallies and even rogues also kite warriors... Come to think now, even mop rogues are like vanguards. )

Vanguard is melee with some ranged abilities, period.

I hate to break this to you but if that is how you are playing your vanguard you are doing it wrong.

Here is a run down of their offensive abilities:

Hammer Shot - 30m
Full Auto - 30m
Sticky Grenade - 30m
High Impact Bolt - 30m
Explosive Round - 30m
Mortar Volley - 30m
Neural Jolt - 30m
Sonic Round - 30m
Harpoon - 30m
Energy Blast (spec dependant) - 10m
Flame Burst (spec dependant) - 10m
Assault Plastique (spec dependant) - 10m
Incendiary Round (spec dependant) - 10m
Ionic Pulse - 10m
Pulse Cannon - 10m
Cryo Grenade - 10m
Explosive Surge - 5m (melee)
Stockstrike - 4m (melee)
Gut (spec dependant) - 4m (melee)
Riot Strike - 4m (melee)

Please don't tell me that I have to explain the above as well as it speaks for itself.

Edit: Added Riot Strike for thoroughness.

[ldev]

Yeah 10m, I'ma gonna dps that sniper.

[WarpedAcorn]

Yeah 10m, I'ma gonna dps that sniper.

What do you mean by this? I don't understand the comment.

[Vankrys]

vanguard is a melee class in PVE with some weak 30m option, period.
you could be somewhat effective (as dps) at 10m max, but the best DPS and tank rotation involve 4m range abilities, thus vanguard is a melee class in PVE
The rifle is just a skin. If that bother you, think of it as a shotgun, only effective at close to mid range.

- - - Updated - - -

I hate to break this to you but if that is how you are playing your vanguard you are doing it wrong.

Here is a run down of their offensive abilities:

Hammer Shot - 30m
Full Auto - 30m
Sticky Grenade - 30m
High Impact Bolt - 30m
Explosive Round - 30m
Mortar Volley - 30m
Neural Jolt - 30m
Sonic Round - 30m
Harpoon - 30m
Energy Blast (spec dependant) - 10m
Flame Burst (spec dependant) - 10m
Assault Plastique (spec dependant) - 10m
Incendiary Round (spec dependant) - 10m
Ionic Pulse - 10m
Pulse Cannon - 10m
Cryo Grenade - 10m
Explosive Surge - 5m (melee)
Stockstrike - 4m (melee)
Gut (spec dependant) - 4m (melee)
Riot Strike - 4m (melee)

Please don't tell me that I have to explain the above as well as it speaks for itself.

Edit: Added Riot Strike for thoroughness.

and here is a typical rotation

Pulse Cannon - 10m
High Impact Bolt - 30m
Gut (spec dependant) - 4m (melee)
Stockstrike - 4m (melee)
Fire Pulse - 10m
Ion Pulse - 10m
Hammer Shot - 30m


at range, you only have HIB and HS, your dps gonna tank real hard.
Vanguard is a melee class, PVE wise.

[WarpedAcorn]

I guess I always look at classes through the lens of PvP (makes sense since that is 90% of how I spend my playtime). And in that realm, the Vanguard is constantly moving in and out of ranges because pretty much everyone is on the move. And because of this, the Vanguard always has something he can toss out damage-wise. Its pretty unique and dynamic class.

Man...you guys are making me want to log onto my Powertech again. =)

[ldev]

What do you mean by this? I don't understand the comment.

You have whopping 4 meters of range compared to melee (most 10m vs all 6m).

4 meters counts as range? Really? Not even close to between melee and ranged.

Vanguards are melee class, deal with it or reroll merc who is in fact a ranged class.

And yeah vanguards can run in and out from 6 meter range to "KITE LOLOLO" melee, on my Marauder I had 1,4 seconds of gcd anyways, plenty of time to "CATCH UP LOLOLO 2 METERS LIKE PRESSING W ONE TIME"

[Revik]

From a PvE standpoint if you are tanking or DPSing I can agree that you never want to be outside of melee range. There isn't a reason to be outside of melee range because either you have things on you in which you want to move as little as possible to give your other melee DPS an easier time or you are DPSing yourself in which case you are not getting targeted so why move away.

From a PvP standpoint highly skilled Vanguards will know when to pop in and out of melee range. This means less damage up time by classes like sentinels/marauders or guardians/juggs and hey if you can avoid even 1 smash or damage cooldown move you've just won one of the little battles that goes on with PvP.

If you think it is impossible to kite someone between the 5-10 meter range then you've never played anyone skilled. By no means are you take this that someone can do this continually 100-0 them but generally this is the preferred distance they want to be at. People used to do this all the time against hunters in WoW it was called the dead zone perhaps you remember it. Vanguards especially tactics can be very adept at this with default increased footspeed (15%) and hold the line.

At this point I am through with this thread. I have made my case. I doubt it has made any difference but hopefully others who read this thread will understand that Vanguard is not just a faceroll melee class.

[Stormcall]

And yeah vanguards can run in and out from 6 meter range to "KITE LOLOLO" melee, on my Marauder I had 1,4 seconds of gcd anyways, plenty of time to "CATCH UP LOLOLO 2 METERS LIKE PRESSING W ONE TIME"

I killed Marauders again and again and again on my Vanguard by staying far enough away that they couldn't melee or charge me, but I COULD hit them with everything but Stockstrike. Cause you see, while you're "PRESSING W ONE TIME" to move forward, the Vanguard is going to be moving AWAY, to maintain that distance. You understand how that works, right? He isn't gonna sit there and go "Durrrr the Marauder is approaching maybe I should just stand here", he's going to be moving TOO. And in case you mention that you're Carnage, and have 15% faster run, well, so do Tactics Vanguards...and Assault Specialists have a 30% slow passively applied by a spammable move that's a part of their normal rotation.

Don't get me wrong, as far as PvE goes, Vanguards are a melee class. You DO need to be in melee to execute your rotation to it's full potential and being out of melee will reduce your damage. But in PvP, that 10m range vs melee's 4m range CAN actually make a difference.

[WarpedAcorn]

And as a Marauder, I've been killed by plenty a Vanguard who pops Hydrolic Override in order to prevent me from rooting them (Carnage), which includes the immobilization from their Charge as well. I pretty much have to use Predation to stay on them until HO ends. Their kiting potential is really high, and like I said they are a weird mixture of melee and ranged that is something unique they bring to the table.

[ldev]

I killed Marauders again and again and again on my Vanguard by staying far enough away that they couldn't melee or charge me, but I COULD hit them with everything but Stockstrike. Cause you see, while you're "PRESSING W ONE TIME" to move forward, the Vanguard is going to be moving AWAY, to maintain that distance. You understand how that works, right?

No, I have no idea how lag compensating mind reading works. Care to explain?