Are we really that bad?

[ophion1990]

People like that are really what I hate most about this game. Unless you have the server first and glad there'll always be some dick who calls you bad and even then they might say you got carried/play an OP class or w/e. Just let it slide, 6/13 is above average and there are probably people out there who would like to switch places with you.

Next time that person says something to you just give him the "if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all, bitch". Or put him on ignore, w/e.

[Halicia]

I have played with people whom I consider 'idiots' for 2 weeks on one of my alt and they are already on 10/13 heroic (10man). They were fun, casual, pretty 'average' with their classes, and they did not stress raiding that hard.

If those guys can get 10/13, I really think anyone under them is carrying extra weight. Carrying is keyword.
By this time, with the upgrade vendor and thunderforged items, you should be pushing @ lei shen heroic / Dark animus heroic at least. I believe those two are the only brick stones in ToT heroic raiding.

progress rankings show that 10/13H is *WELL* above the average even for heroic raiding guilds.

Only about 20% of heroic raiding guilds have cleared that far... and they're in the minority to begin with.

[Calaba]

theres 28 oceanic guilds who raid mostly 9-12 hours a week who are 13/13 , so yes , u are bad.

Erm, there's a big difference between 9 and 12 hours, you know.
And 28 guilds clearing content? You do realise how few that is, right?

There's plenty of guilds killing the first boss and Ji-Kun on hc. That's where probably most hc guilds with 9 hours or less per week are at right now. So 6/13 is pretty good even for a hc guild. It's certainly not bad by any measure. Just a reminder - the average raider is progressing on Lei Shen NORMAL right now. The main reason for this won't have much to do with gear or skill, just how many hours they're willing to put in each week. Takes a good 3 - 4 hours for most guilds to farm normal, which leaves 1 raid night tops for most of those guilds to make progress on hc. Good luck getting more than 1 new hc boss down each week in that kinda time frame. It can be done for sure, but you're gonna find it faster to do stuff like abandoning normal mode in favor of hc, and extending each lockout until EVERY boss is dead. That's not something most guilds will want to do, as they'll lose out on too much normal (and early hc) mode loot, and people will get annoyed and go elsewhere.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

If you think that makes a difference to the average.........

Except that it doesn't work like that.

Being better than the majority of the wow population doesn't make you good.


You seem to believe that we can divine the playerbase into "good", "average" and "bad", but it doesn't work like that.

If you take the entire raiding population, you probably have 65% bad players, 25% "decent", and 10% that actually know what they are doing. Random numbers, but you get the point. As you can see, the average of that, still falls into the "bad" cathegory.

The average wow player is average

This statement makes no sense whatsoever. Average is not something you can use to define somebodys skilllvl. The average wow player is bad, no matter how much you want to quote posts out of context to make it seem otherwise.

progress rankings show that 10/13H is *WELL* above the average even for heroic raiding guilds.

Only about 20% of heroic raiding guilds have cleared that far... and they're in the minority to begin with.

Average doesn't mean "not bad". Read above. "Above average" only means you have more players beneath you than above you on the rankings, still doesn't mean that you're not bad.

[taheen74]

Ignore the guy. Some idiots think everything is easy and if you don't clear like Paragon or Method you're worthless. 6/13H is way above the majority of guilds in the game right now and nothing to sneeze at.

^ this.

The guild I'm currently in has barely scratched the surface of NORMAL ToT. But, then again, on my server there's only a couple of horde guilds that are actually raiding anymore (not a very active server anymore- the half off sale made things worse). But we only raid one night a week (well we've just started having Sunday night 10m's for the next bosses).

If you guys are having fun, who cares what the morons think?

[Boneyards]

As far as I'm concerned, everyone moves at their own pace. Some people take longer to get shit done, others blast right through it. I'm 10/13H and it's taken us since day 1 to get here, but we're still proud of it.

[Zatetic]

theres 28 oceanic guilds who raid mostly 9-12 hours a week who are 13/13 , so yes , u are bad.

lol jens shut it down, mate. how did One go in t14? How many guilds beat you to a full clear? all of them. Bad by your own standards.

[Deja Thoris]

theres 28 oceanic guilds who raid mostly 9-12 hours a week who are 13/13 , so yes , u are bad.

How many that raid that long that are worse off? if theres more than 28 they are better than "average" (Which there are). It seems the only "bad" thing is your comprehension / ability to smack.

[evoker]

I'm the raid leader of a 10man group that also has 6/13H and most of the time I feel like 4 people are carrying the rest. We have 2 healers, a warlock and a mage that rank almost every fight. The rest do average DPS. We have tanks that needed 15 wipes to figure out how to keep the add away from Primo heroic.

What I want to say is that having fun and raiding with friends is more important than clearing everything quickly. We raid 6 hours per week, so I think 6/13HC is pretty decent with the skill level of the players we got. Not everyone is part of a 25man HC guild that might even be carrying those boasting about their 13/13HC kills...

I think everyone should be proud of their achievements, no matter how trivial they might seem to others.