Mage Ability Bloat-What's for the Chop

[Deleted]

If I compile :
- mana gem : to rework or into Arcane
- mount, TP/Portal : better UI integration
- food/table : only 1 needed, reworked and enhanced
- AOE : clarification, into spec and as talent
- Bomb : into spec if appropriate.
- CS/spell steal/sheep : better targeting and use (/stopcast or /whilecasting spell base)
- L90 : remove
- Armor : into spec or as talent

did I forget something ?

[Deleted]

you leave my spellsteal alone..... don't take any more unique abilities out of the game!
and leave my mirror images alone too!

They could put all those uniq abilities in the talent tree - expand the current tree abit and tune some of the more situational spells. Spellsteal, Evocation and Alter time for example - could be in a tier. Obviously they would have to buff and nerf abit and maybe remove possible dps gains from some spells. But forcing the developers to revisit some spells creatively might not be a bad idea.
All the flavour dps spells is a bigger challenge. As long the core dps spell is relatively boring click and forget buttons, you need spells like Bomb, Orb and Mirror Images to spice up combat a bit. Flavour belongs in a talent tree imo, but tiers with dps talents have not been as optionable in MOP as i think the developers would have prefered, they are apparently still easy to math out.

[Deleted]

-Level 75 talents removed : Makes the specs too similiar just give it to the apropriate spec
-Level 90 talents removed : just give arcane these systems as base and if needed have a glyph that changes it from rune to invocation style
-Armors turned into talents
-Conjure refreshments removed : cd of Conjurerefreshment table reduced.
-Managem removed: also for arcane if it doesn't have a bigger impact
-Flamestrike removed: Unless it gets seriously buffed, have flamestrike replace blizzard when in firespec, possibly have flamestrike being automaticly centred around your current target.
- Cone of Cold removed for Firespec, just add a slow mechanic on dragon's breath when it breaks and add aditional damage to it.


Maybe the following as well
- Fireblast removed for Arcane and Frost : have Icelance nonfrozen damage increased to better replace it. Because frostmastery is now tied to Ice Lance this could cause big problems for pvp, so not sure.
- Scorch removed : Only if one can cast Fireball on the move. And have this glyph added: reduces the cast time of Arcane Blast, Fireball, Frostbolt by 0.5sec but reduce the damage by x%.

[Deleted]

@taelon : no problem between IL and pvp because Icicle no-longer increase IL's damage. Only intel increase it after being crit capped.

[2s2p]

And why does it hurt to have those spells?

You know there were situations when using your BF on a fireball made sense last expansion? There were also times I just had fun messing around with some other spells. Remember detect magic? Focus magic? Amplify and dampen magic? The list goes on.

The more we strip away from the mage class, the less wizardly the class feels.

I caution the playerbase against demanding such streamlined spec toolkits. Sure, for raids you won't notice any difference-- but the heart and soul of the class itself starts to become so compartmentalized with the variety and cool factor of a preacher's wife's underpants drawer.

And if you're too stupid to know that you shouldn't be using arcane blast as your main nuke when you're a fire mage, well... I don't think online games are for you.

I agree with this, I still miss having some of those spells. Want the fire and frost wards back too!

See a bunch of posts about mana gems, there still useful I think for outside arcane. As frost, with the the meta gem procs, and getting lucky with procs Ive had to use mana gems plenty of times recently on my mage, before i had to refresh my invocation buff. Havent played fire yet this expansion so not sure if they need them ever.

[LocNess]

I think Conjure Mana Gem should go. It used to boost our SP in the Arcane tree which was nice, now Fire and Frost don't have mana issues normally and Arcane I think should just get increased mana regen to compensate.

However I REALLY Wish we could have "Mana Stone" like a Warlock's "Health Stone" we could give to the raid for utility or something. Just restore some of the resource of whatever that class uses.

[Zatetic]

the level 90 talents should be combined with our armors to make them more interesting and situational.

mage armor gets passive x% mana regen per second
frost gets x% sp
molten gets x% health regen per second (new)

on top of their respective 5% crit, 7% haste and 3k mastery and passive armor bonuses. It'd make for interesting use. Adjust arcane and fire slightly to deal with the lack of an sp buff.

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flamestrike should be reverted to blastwave. instant cast, slow, moderate damage w/ a short cooldown (10secs or so)

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mana gem should default have 10 charges and be arcane only

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mirror images should be a proc chance for frost and arcane and remain a 'threat dump' for fire

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greater invis should be standard

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blizzard should be either super buffed or completely removed. All it is used for is finding stealthed toons in arena

[voltaa]

@zet: seeing your MI as a proc idea gave me an idea, make them like shadowfiend in cata, make missile crits reduce the CD on them or something of the sort the same way mindflay crits used to reduce fiend

[Nightfall]

When considering removing abilities you should really think for all areas of WoW, not only the one you enjoy the most. Many of the aforementioned abilities are very useful in some scenarios and I'd hate to see them removed.

Fireblast is useful to negate spell reflects, destroy totems and low-health minions and to break flag/point capturing. It's also useful to fill gaps in Arcane's mobile rotation, especially in PVP.

Ice Lance is useful in the same regard as Fireblast for different specs. It will also be good to shatter Deep Freezes as Arcane in 5.4.

Mirror Images are irreplaceable for soloing, where Mages are already among the worst classes.

Cone of Cold is amazing for kiting.

Arcane Explosion lets you finish multiple low-health enemies, Hunter snake traps and to break capturing flags/points in PVP. It's also the best spell in the entire game to solo old dungeons.

Arcane Barrage is simply awesome. Besides, Arcane has only 5 spec-specific spell. Five! That must be the lowest number in the game, hardly a bloat.

Frostfire Bolt is the only powerful spell we have outside every spec's main spell school, it's our spell-lock go-to spell. Plus it's the only ranged slow Fire has. PoM-FFB a Demolisher in SotA for example. Also you can spellsteal Brain Freeze and cast it even if you are not Frost.

Portals/Teleports can't be considered button bloat as you don't have to bind them - just put on tabs and click them. Also every portal and every teleport in now merged into one button - no bloat at all.


The only spells I consider ready to trim are:
Conjure Mana Gem - it should become Arcane-only, have no charges and create no items or be cut entirely.
Flamestrike/Blizzard - these should become more interesting or become spec-specific.

Lvl75 and lv90 talent can go as far as I'm concerned, the only one to stay is spreadable Living Bomb for Fire. And I really want Blastwave with knockback to make a return.

The removal of Mana Shield and Frost/Fire/Mage Wards is debatable. I liked Frost/Fire Wards in WotLK mainly due to reflects. But in Cata it was a nuisance to cast all the shields because they took gcds and absorbed low amounts of damage. If those were available to this day it would've been very annoying to cast all of them as all specs have access to Ice Barrier now.

[Polarthief]

You all are being FAR to conservative! Get ready to read my suggestions and rage!

Spellsteal - fun, yes, but rarely used anymore in PvE and part of the arms race problem in PvP
Frostfire bolt - rework brainfreeze (instantly fills icicles perhaps?)
Mirror Image - while it can be fun to use to escape death in PvE wipes, it could totally just be a passive proc.
Cone of cold/dragon's breath/arcane explosion - do we really need three melee range spells for a class that's supposed to stay at range?
scorch - make fireball castable on the move with some minor penalty
Arcane barrage - make missiles castable on the move with a minor penalty

Don't you ever fucking touch Spellsteal. I like it so much that it's my 5 button on every spec (regardless if PvP, PvE, soloing, ANYTHING. It's fucking hard-coded into my brain as "5")

FFB was just added as of LK and it has its uses. While I dislike it being our Level 1 spell (because a novice Mage can easily work two elements simultaneously...?) I like how it works. It's also nice to have if you get locked out of Frost/Fire schools as those specs/having a slow as Fire is pretty helpful sometimes.

MI I'll definitely agree with. It's stupid how it is atm.

Meh. Why remove them? CoC and DB are used in Melee when we're in close range. While I don't feel they should ever be used FOR damage (because that feels silly), I do think it's helpful to have short cooldowns to get some distance from you and attackers (DB incaps enemies and CoC slows them. AE, I have no words for)

The minor penalty is that Scorch has no projectile (makes it harder to time IB with it) and it's weaker than Fireball. No real need to remove it because I doubt they'll ever make Fireball mobile.

So what resets your Arcane Charge stacks...?

[Racthoh]

Mana gem has out lived its usefulness for everything but arcane so much that it should probably be an arcane only spell now just like evocation (minus invocation) most of the time, something should probably be done here

not really. when you oom with spellsteal the mana gem is extremely useful if you can't or don't want to waste an evo.

honestly the only spell i can think of that i don't rarely use is teleport:exodar.

and also mirror image is a great survivability talent in both pve and pvp. you essentially get 3 melee swings + travel time out of a hard hitting mob when timed properly. not to mention fooling retards in pvp. and it's an amazing temporary threat dump. mirror image is my top 10 mage spells alongside blink and invis.

[Polarthief]

The removal of Mana Shield and Frost/Fire/Mage Wards is debatable. I liked Frost/Fire Wards in WotLK mainly due to reflects. But in Cata it was a nuisance to cast all the shields because they took gcds and absorbed low amounts of damage. If those were available to this day it would've been very annoying to cast all of them as all specs have access to Ice Barrier now.

They'd be stronger now. Twilight Ward, for example, absorbs [3205 + (Spell power * 3)], meaning that if you have 30k Spellpower, that absorbs 93,205 (I'd say that's significant enough to cast).

Mana Shield could become % Maximum or Current Mana. These could all also be taken off the GCD.

Hell, part of the reason I rarely use IB anymore is because of the GCD (plus TS is miles ahead in so many scenarios). Don't see why in today's day and age we could have GCD-less shields when almost any defensive, non-shielding ability is already off the GCD.

[Nightfall]

not really. when you oom with spellsteal the mana gem is extremely useful if you can't or don't want to waste an evo.

Yes, but is it that needed? You could plan spellsteals more carefully in order to have some mana left for other spells. Also Spellsteal could become a little cheaper to compensate if Mana Gem is removed.

[Polarthief]

not really. when you oom with spellsteal the mana gem is extremely useful if you can't or don't want to waste an evo.

The only scenario atm being T14 when you don't have a Priest or Shaman.

They really should fix Spellsteal's Mana cost though.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, but is it that needed? You could plan spellsteals more carefully in order to have some mana left for other spells. Also Spellsteal could become a little cheaper to compensate if Mana Gem is removed.

Easier effect: If the buff dispelled is not stealable, Spellsteal's mana cost drops to X (would be something very, VERY low, in line with Dispel Magic and Purge)

Or add a Minor glyph: Spellsteal no longer steals a buff, but reduces its mana cost by X%

[Nightfall]

They'd be stronger now. Twilight Ward, for example, absorbs [3205 + (Spell power * 3)], meaning that if you have 30k Spellpower, that absorbs 93,205 (I'd say that's significant enough to cast).

Yes, they would. But would Blizzard allow them to? I think they would have lowered absorbs due to our lv30 talents.

Mana Shield could become % Maximum or Current Mana. These could all also be taken off the GCD.

Mana Shield could actually be really useful to Arcane right now. It's too fragile. Also fits resource-managing scheme, similar to Destro's embers spendable on damage or healing.

[Polarthief]

Yes, they would. But would Blizzard allow them to? I think they would have lowered absorbs due to our lv30 talents.

Mana Shield could actually be really useful to Arcane right now. It's too fragile.

I mean, Warlocks have about 2x the defensives that we do... I don't think our L30 talent should affect it at all.

... Too fragile over what? Fire and Frost? What changes other than the lack of movement?
Now if you mean in PvP, then yeah, that's different, but Arcane has never been that great at PvP.

[Nightfall]

I mean, Warlocks have about 2x the defensives that we do... I don't think our L30 talent should affect it at all.

... Too fragile over what? Fire and Frost? What changes other than the lack of movement?
Now if you mean in PvP, then yeah, that's different, but Arcane has never been that great at PvP.

Yes, I'm talking about PVP. As a more hardcast-dependant spec, it shout have more defences.

[SodiumChloride]

Flamestrike could go, we already have Blizzard (that comes with a snare) for targeted AoE.

Teleports and Portals aren't a big deal, both are all in flyout buttons. Would be nice if we had general purpose customizable flyout buttons though.

Fireblast ... as Frost useful for finishing of mobs with a sliver of health left. Could be cut though if we are that desperate. Maybe make Ice Lance hit harder at low HP percentages.

Never liked Alter Time, too gimmicky. Personally won't miss it if it goes byebye.

Spellsteal ... the eternally unbalanced ability with Blizzard buff and nerfing it more times that Frank Sinatra falling out of flavor and making comebacks. Another candidate.

Mana gems should be repurpose to provide a shield and HoT when used. Usable by anyone. 3 charges. Mana crystal as a "table" for dispensing. It's BS that warlocks are the only class that can provide that utility, a raid without a warlock for healthstones is a gimped raid.

[Deleted]

An Idea to make MI more useful/interesting in Pvp, % of damage you receive is split between Mirror images. Could be all damage or just 50% or so.
Make it a talent of glyph? If made talent there could be a glyph to boost either Images health or increase the % of the split.

I wish to see return of blast wave and mana shield, arcane could use some protection and it would fit the whole arcane mana management style.

[Polarthief]

An Idea to make MI more useful/interesting in Pvp, % of damage you receive is split between Mirror images. Could be all damage or just 50% or so.

So rather than them taking 3 hits, now you take 50% of a hit and they all die instantly?