[Warlock] Action button bloat: Which spell would you choose to cut off

[Deklol]

And no one has said life tap.

That shit has to go, sure it's an old ability
but it's so trashy.

[Grizelda]

Hmmm, now there's a thought.

It was cool when other classes actually ran out of mana and we could Life Tap and get right back in the game. Do other classes (DPS) actually run out of mana anymore?

We have other resources we work off of now, I wonder if this mechanic still has legs? I somehow feel that trying to get rid of it would just cause a cascade of other problems that we would regret. God forbid we lost Ember Tap in the change.

[muto]

I just had another idea concerning CC:

Affliction gets Fear
Destruction gets Banish
Demonology gets Enslave Demon

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Other classes like hunters are seriously bloated with skills that have to use rotationally. Warlocks after the rework feel smooth and sleek enough. Only demo could maybe do with a little bit of trimming.

I don't really mind pure utility spells like banish, command demon, eye etc. It's ok for them to just exist.

Fel flame could be a destruction only spell, removing it from aff and demo.. but Blizzard is trying out other stuff with it and I don't really mind it.

PvP is another story of course, but really almost all classes and specs need a ton of keybinds to be competitive in PvP.

It makes more sense for Afflic. to have Fel Flame than Destruction, because Fel Flame only refreshes Immolate whereas as Afflic. Fel Flame refreshes UA, and Corruption.

[PickleballAce]

Spreading the CC like that would have some pretty big PVP implications.

[muto]

Spreading the CC like that would have some pretty big PVP implications.

Yeah you're right, I just thought it was a unique idea. I know it will never happen.

[Anonymous1038853]

You guys know that you don't have to keybind abilities which have non-combat uses, right? And that the scenarios in which these spells are useful won't suddenly go away? Seeing people say they want to see Eye of Kilrog and Enslave Demon be removed is a bit silly; just don't bind them if you don't use them. I personally miss Detect Invisibility, even from a non-combat perspective, and it's not like if I had it, it would be on my bars.

But yeah. Stuff like that isn't button bloat, since you really don't need to keybind it at all.

[Underverse]

I think cool abilities like unending breath should stay.

What needs to be looked at is the sheer volume of cooldowns being used. Every class got like 15 extra cds. You shouldnt always have a cd up. It makes each cd feel less powerful and unique, which is the entire point of cds.

[Ogawdspider]

But yeah. Stuff like that isn't button bloat, since you really don't need to key-bind it at all.

Pretty much this.. Things like unending breath, and eye and what not are not NEEDED to be key-bound. I would be a little bit sad if they got rid of them. From time to time i still find fun times/places to use things of this nature.

I think people are losing sight of some of the more fun things in this game.. like randomly running around with your buddies and finding places in the game you didn't really knew existed. I think all everyone is focused on now a days is BiS, Max DPS and FOTM pvp classes..

[Sylar Hao]

I have everything, EVERYTHING, bound to 21 keybinds on my warlock. That includes engineering gloves and belt, trinkets, potions, racials, and even pet abilities, etc..., yes, some of them are macros, but just a few.

Granted there could be some stuff removed/baked in like CoE, Dark Intent or Unending Breath, and Create Healthstone and Soulwell could be merged together, and maybe some talents made into passive talents...

But other than that I really don't think warlocks have button bloat problems, at least not for me. I have more problems with my feral for whom I've got to create a lot of macros so I can play him comfortably and making sure I keybind all his abilities.


Edit: Don't you dare to touch my Eye of Killrog, I use quite often, and not because of the glyph but to actually roam around safely.

[Cathbadh]

I'm fine with the number of buttons in MoP, especially considering the number of buttons (and I'm talking core rotation buttons, not just CD's and obscure spells like Eye of Kilrog) that Cata/Wrath had. Yeah a lot of them are CD's, but honestly I click many of my low use CD's just fine. As for the really rarely used non-combat spells like mass resurrection, I will even type a /cast command, but I suppose a 90+WPM probably has something to do with that

[Tinkertee]

Hello back,
I just want to state that I didn't mention at all my opinions on wether Warlocks are button-bloated or not. The intent here is having a creative thread. Lots of buttons is a wow signature, and mastering lots of buttons brings joy as players get better and better at the game. As PVP got an overhaul in Cata, with the increase of combat length and the addition of burst abilities, classes gained new abilities. With the new talent model, they gained even more.

I agree that curses feel a bit unpleasant now, I otherwise like the idea of choosing one of them depending on the situation. What makes curses annoying is that they spend GCDs. I'd suggest bake the curses into some of the abilities and still provide us a choice -- like a paladin's seal or some "stance", or even just put them in a separate GCD.

[Akakishin]

Dear life tap, we had a long trip together into azroth with so many memories (spirit to sp dear lord!). but I really think we need to split up and don't tell me to reroll the one who must leave this sodality is you!

[Deleted]

Merge Curse of Exhaustion, Curse of the Elements and Curse of Enfeeblement into a new curse called Curse of Pwn.

I would resubscribe!

[Phoenexis]

I don't get why everyone wants to get rid of iconic class abilities which are available to all 3 specs. In the end, you're playing a warlock specialized in something, you shouldn't have a completely different toolkit.
This is what lets me down a lot as of late, that Affli, Destro and Demo have nothing in common when you look at the surface, even though they work similarly in terms of how they execute in PvP. It's like a desperate attempt at making each spec its own class, and people actually want that. There SHOULD be common ground between the specs, and more than just the talents we're given.
The only button bloat I see is the ridiculous amount of active defensive CDs; Life Tap and Unending Breath are perfectly fine

[Deleted]

I don't get why everyone wants to get rid of iconic class abilities which are available to all 3 specs. In the end, you're playing a warlock specialized in something, you shouldn't have a completely different toolkit.
This is what lets me down a lot as of late, that Affli, Destro and Demo have nothing in common when you look at the surface, even though they work similarly in terms of how they execute in PvP. It's like a desperate attempt at making each spec its own class, and people actually want that. There SHOULD be common ground between the specs, and more than just the talents we're given.
The only button bloat I see is the ridiculous amount of active defensive CDs; Life Tap and Unending Breath are perfectly fine

For me personally i think its enough with using a demon and throwing curses being pretty much the only thing common with the tree specs.

I prefer feeling that im playing 3 DIFFERENT specs rather than 3 specs thats basically the exact same mechanics with the only real difference
being the name of the spells.

Wheres the fun in that? Whats the point of chosing spec if its the same thing in the end?

I guess thats why i like my druid so much. I essentially have 4 different classes in 1. I wish warlock was more like that!

[Zardi]

I know I'll get burned for saying this, but I'd remove Dark Soul. It doesn't provide any interesting gameplay - you have to burn it with all trinkets/pots/CDs, else you are doing it wrong. As much as I like the "press this to do super DPS", in the end it is just macro'd or used together with other damage amplifiers. I'm sure the damage can be baked into other abilities, passive benefits, or whatever.

[Deleted]

I know I'll get burned for saying this, but I'd remove Dark Soul. It doesn't provide any interesting gameplay - you have to burn it with all trinkets/pots/CDs, else you are doing it wrong. As much as I like the "press this to do super DPS", in the end it is just macro'd or used together with other damage amplifiers. I'm sure the damage can be baked into other abilities, passive benefits, or whatever.

Well then all classes would have to get their "omg mega dps"-ability removed. Doesnt really fit into the button bloat discussion imo

[Hellfury]

-Coe, should be baked on our spells,

-Soulshater doesnt have much use besides soloing, it could be merged with TW, like everytime one TW it loses some aggro.

-Coex could be merfed into a SBed Curse of Enfeeblement

-ROF for aff but it should be reworked allow us to "seed" ourselfs so we can AOE when there isnt any target.

-Unending Health I use it alot for fishing Soulburned, but it could be merged with Dark Intent, SB DI give us walking on water abilities, casting DI on Meta same, for destro I dont know but they could work something out

[Deleted]

Every class should just have two abilities and auto attack, just so we can avoid any skill whatsoever, so make shadow bolt a 10 second cast so you can have plenty of time to find your corruption and make it so that corrution lasts 1 hour, wouldn't wanna have to refresh it so often.

No but seriously tho, you don't need to bind all your things, it's not like I just suddenly need to use eye of kilrogg or unending breath within a split second, there is plenty of space to organize everything. I only have 25 binds with a few modifiers on them, if you actually play your character a bit it will be a breeze. I have a lot of stuff bound to the same buttom between classes, like interrupts, taunts, defensive cds, offensive cds and spells to use while moving and what not. Many classes have so few spells it's sad, the action bars are so empty.

I do not see the need to remove fun little spells that have no serious implications, no one is forcing you to have them out on your bar.

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I know I'll get burned for saying this, but I'd remove Dark Soul. It doesn't provide any interesting gameplay - you have to burn it with all trinkets/pots/CDs, else you are doing it wrong. As much as I like the "press this to do super DPS", in the end it is just macro'd or used together with other damage amplifiers. I'm sure the damage can be baked into other abilities, passive benefits, or whatever.

I like offensive cds, it allows the player to have a choice, where the guild might need more dps for a burn on a specific encounter or what have you

[ComputerNerd]

Unending Breath has the potential to be a lot more useful if the water-walking aspect was not limited to a single spec.
I use the glyph for the increased swim speed during daily questing, and in PvP where there is water such as in Twin Peaks.
That is an ability more on the fence, because it has more than a single case where it is useful but still only seeing a fraction of the use compared to others.
CoE is bloat, because its method of application in the content where it is most likely to see use is tedious and at odds to other classes bringing the same effect far more easily.
Bloat is more than the infrequency of use.