Page 1 of 8
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Angry [Warlock] Action button bloat: Which spell would you choose to cut off

    GC has been stating for quite a while the intent on reducing the number of abilities for every class. On the other hand, it risks unpleasing many players by removing abilities they used to like.

    Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Between this statement and wanting to reduce button bloat, I long for 6.0!
    Just help us stem the tidal wave of QQ when "favorite" ability X goes away. (Source)
    SO, if you were to choose one or two Warlock spells to be removed, which ones would it be?

    There goes my shot!

    Soul Burn - Soul Swap: Dots should be strong (including dot-cleaving). To put all of them at once should not come at a light cost. Additionally, it cause affliction to have a few more rotational buttons than the other specs (not saying that's necessarily bad).

    Dark Regeneration : While it's a cool ability and easily macro'd with healthstone, it could just become a passive like the others in the same tier. Also, casuals probably take long until figuring out it can be macro'd.

    All tier 60 talents: Completely disposable or replaceable. Tier 60 is a fail. Not saying they are bad abilities, but they are strange for warlocks.

    Gateway: Overpowered and clunky

    Twilight Ward: Meh

  2. #2
    High Overlord Jaen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    181
    I know it's not a popular idea, but I would cut out a lot of the active talents and make a lot more of them passive, for all classes, not just warlocks. They keep saying they want to cut back on button bloat but then they want every talent tier to have an active option, and the active option should be the best option because you have to do something. Which makes them sound a little psycho... "We want to cut back on button bloat, but we want active talents to be the best."

  3. #3

  4. #4
    I'll probably get a lot of hate for it but, I wouldn't mind seeing MG and DL being merged.

    Unless MG disappears next expac and SB becomes the filler again.

  5. #5
    I would remove Rain of Fire from Affliction's toolkit. I would be tempted to remove Twilight Ward altogether. I would remove Create Healthstone and leave in Create Soulwell, perhaps having Create Soulwell automatically place a Healthstone in the warlock's inventory.

  6. #6
    Not that I want it gone but CoE was the first thing I that came to mind. It sort of stands out when playing other casters that just open up with damage.
    Last edited by Rethul Ur No; 2013-08-16 at 07:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Schirm View Post
    I'll probably get a lot of hate for it but, I wouldn't mind seeing MG and DL being merged.

    Unless MG disappears next expac and SB becomes the filler again.
    I was about to say something along the same lines. Seems like 2 channeled drain spells with different durations that will ideally never be used side-by-side but serve the same purpose is fairly sloppy design. They could probably be combined in an intelligent way that wouldn't break the functionality of either.

  8. #8
    Unending Breath is the easy one
    Either Doomguard or Infernal (with a shared cooldown, we don't need both)
    Demonic Gateway (cool idea, but overpowered and unbalanceable)
    Dark Intent
    Unending Resolve (we were not originally a cooldown class and these are fairly new spells)
    Grimoire Teir Talents (move Demon customization to minor Glyphs)
    Banish or Fear (if it is ruled we only need one CC, I would like to keep Banish, but I think Fear is more likely)
    and maybe Healthstone (if they wanted to continue to gut our Raid utility).

  9. #9
    I think there needs to be combo spells, like MG turns into DS automatically sub 20%. I know idea's like this might devalue the skill cap a bit but seriously who can't look at there targets % and switch at x number already.

    Coe could/should be applied from one of our spells or be an aura for all specs, I don't know what that would do to our other curses though.

    It'd be nice if DI was auto, but again thats something that is purge/steal in pvp so that might make things less complex.

    And remove infernal.

    Lastly... gateway, in the tom chilton interview he said if you could pick x class to bring to a raid which would it be and he said warlock because of gateway everything else was pretty on par with potential. Gateway is already an iffy spell and not something I want to be balanced around.
    Last edited by Gohzerlock; 2013-08-16 at 07:59 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Orloth View Post
    Unending Breath is the easy one
    - That spell is more than optional. Put it on a different action bar, or simply don't use it at all.

    Either Doomguard or Infernal (with a shared cooldown, we don't need both)
    - Get a macro and put them both on 1 button

    Demonic Gateway (cool idea, but overpowered and unbalanceable)
    - Yeah.. it's definitely unbalanceable. It's not that they just did balance it on the PTR.

    Dark Intent
    - Beause putting your buffs on another action bar and clicking them every 60min is that incredibly hard?

    Unending Resolve (we were not originally a cooldown class and these are fairly new spells)
    - I don't even know how to address this nonsense. It's a defensive CD, it's new - just bind it ffs. If it's too hard, get the new glyph that's gonna be released with 5.4 and get passive dmg reduction.


    Grimoire Teir Talents (move Demon customization to minor Glyphs)
    - Comparing Grimoires with "customization" is beyond stupid. They change your entire playstyle and don't just give your Fel Imp an "incredibly cool mohawk".

    Banish or Fear (if it is ruled we only need one CC, I would like to keep Banish, but I think Fear is more likely)
    - Again.. get a macro to put both on 1 button.

    and maybe Healthstone (if they wanted to continue to gut our Raid utility).
    - Dude..
    Is this thread even serious? How can you honestly be complaining about minor spells, that you use once every now and then, or to buff your raid every 60min.
    It's not that I don't agree, that making mandatory buffs become permanent auras (Dark Intent) would be nice, or CoE becomming some sort of passive abilities which is being applied to the enemy whenever you use a spell.

    The only other option to reduce the button bloat would be to remove spells that you regularly use, which I'm definitely not a big fan of. It's actually one of the reasons, why I like WoW so much. It gives you so many great different ways to play your class.
    Have you ever played other MMOs? Welcome to 6 button world..
    Last edited by spookyy; 2013-08-16 at 08:03 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JJShadoe View Post
    I would remove Rain of Fire from Affliction's toolkit. I would be tempted to remove Twilight Ward altogether.
    No. RoF in Affli is crucial since it doesn't have any ground based aoe that doesn't require target. It's there in case for destealthing rogues/ferals, firing through smoke and sometimes encounters (Lei Shi).

    TW is something I could see being cut, it's not useful most of time in raid, mainly an extra self-shield in pvp.

    Both Summon: Infernal and Doomguard, I dislike long cooldown spells that does crap damage anyway. Or at the very least Infernal which they cannot properly balance, it doesn't seem to deal any damage apart from landing, which kinda defeats purpose imo.

    Enslave Demon. This expansion have total of zero demons to be enslaved. DKs for some reason got Control Undead but there is no undeads either, except for Scholo heroic where you can get one of skeleton guards... which doesn't work when you go to Challenge mode... so what's the point?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    No. RoF in Affli is crucial since it doesn't have any ground based aoe that doesn't require target. It's there in case for destealthing rogues/ferals, firing through smoke and sometimes encounters (Lei Shi).

    TW is something I could see being cut, it's not useful most of time in raid, mainly an extra self-shield in pvp.

    Both Summon: Infernal and Doomguard, I dislike long cooldown spells that does crap damage anyway. Or at the very least Infernal which they cannot properly balance, it doesn't seem to deal any damage apart from landing, which kinda defeats purpose imo.

    Enslave Demon. This expansion have total of zero demons to be enslaved. DKs for some reason got Control Undead but there is no undeads either, except for Scholo heroic where you can get one of skeleton guards... which doesn't work when you go to Challenge mode... so what's the point?
    Twilight ward is excellent for pvp and some pve encounters, enslave i'd kind of agree but it was pivotal in the green fire encounter.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans serenka's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Berkshire - South England
    Posts
    2,851
    Curse of the elements

    and

    enslave demon
    dragonmaw - EU

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Enslave Demon. This expansion have total of zero demons to be enslaved. DKs for some reason got Control Undead but there is no undeads either, except for Scholo heroic where you can get one of skeleton guards... which doesn't work when you go to Challenge mode... so what's the point?
    DKs can enslave the spirits near the first boss in Scarlet Monastery and use it to bulldoze the rest of the instance. Makes very quick work of the CM if you're not derps.

  15. #15
    Coe: bake it in our spells.
    Enslave demon has utiities, butvery little
    Soul link should be auto active if you have the talent, end of. Shouldn't exist as a button.
    Dark intent ( more generally buffs) should be auto active, and not a button.
    I don't think doomguard is cool anymore. Just an extra button. You could bake that dmg into kverall... But i do like looks/fun/flavour.

  16. #16
    I don't think button bloat is all that bad for us anymore. I don't look at my keys these days and worry about running out of room.


    Twilight ward. I wouldn't cry if it were other then what it is now.

    Curse of Elements? I guess we could bake that in but at what point do we stop making things automatic. I liked stance dancing between Fel Armor and Demon Armor back in the day. I was dismayed when it was baked in.

    Aff could surely do without RoF. Harvest Life AoE should be baked in for them. Maybe Soulburn for the AoE effect.

    I'd really hate to lose Banish and Enslave Demon right before a burning legion inspired expansion.

  17. #17
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nagrand Arena
    Posts
    1,515
    wtf, there is no button bloat. There are spells that should never have existed (gateway) but there is no button bloat- and I say that with a bunch of arena/focus target macros I deal with. And whats with these baking spells into other spells bs, how come everyone is becoming so noob they cant be arsed to actually press buttons? Spells like enslave demon people don't even use today unless they jerk around, I wonder do you guys actually know what button bloat stands for.
    Last edited by Naztrak; 2013-08-16 at 08:57 PM.
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

  18. #18
    I find that in the heat of combat on certain classes there is waaaay too many buttons to remember. I mean honestly, wtf, I have so much crap on my bars on my lock alt and so many bindings that I'd love to find a way to get rid of half of this crap, but i dont see how without ruining the class.

  19. #19
    Personally I don't see what needs to be removed for locks, perhaps Demo the whole shadowbolt/soul fire thing seems like a waste (maybe molten core should just set the shadowbolt skulls on fire instead).

    And it seems people aren't getting the right end of the stick, bloat is being used to refer to spells used rotationally, not random buffs like UBreath.

    As for CoE, it's one cast in PvE every 5(?) mins, but for PvP it's a choice between this and CoEnfeeblement so baking it into the spells takes that choice away (and also makes certain healers unable to tone down damage by dispelling it).

  20. #20
    Epic! Naztrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Nagrand Arena
    Posts
    1,515
    As for CoE, it's one cast in PvE every 5(?) mins, but for PvP it's a choice between this and CoEnfeeblement so baking it into the spells takes that choice away (and also makes certain healers unable to tone down damage by dispelling it).
    In PvP you have to rotate it as needed. You actually get to cast exhaustion on ranged if you wanna ease it for your melee, or you want to avoid cursing a mage since he can buff himself due to it.

    But yeah- stfu pvp guy; atleast I think of this situations before I write crap.

    I find that in the heat of combat on certain classes there is waaaay too many buttons to remember.
    practice more
    PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •