5.4 STAT WEIGHTS [Resto 10 man]

[Gendori]

And I think that build will gimp you in 5.4, because the buff to Chain Heal significantly increases the opportunity cost of using GCDs on Totemic Recall and Magma Totem over just running at a higher Spirit levels and casting Chain Heal more often.

were talking 2 GCD's of opportunity cost, and you have a whole minute to recall the magma totem, so you can wait for the perfect spot where not a lot of damage is going out to recall it, this will also allow you to align your HST and magma totem together, getting 2 totems recalled at full mana for the cost of 1 GCD. For 2 GCD's I can add a crapload of crit, which will buff every single one of my other heals, and more than make up for the Loss of 2 GCD's, while at the same time, returning a very competitive amount of mana Through resurgence

We're also talking 10 mans, in which chain heal will still have issues (even glyphed).

Also You don't realize the big savings that is going to come just from riptide, Mana saved=Mana gained. You did mention it, but if you looked over logs and ran the numbers youll see that its significantly more than you think

You ever use a Conc Pot? thats 10 seconds, and thats like 2 meta gem procs

[Tiberria]

The mana cost reduction on Riptide is worth a maximum of 2500 Spirit if used on cooldown (and not glyphed), realistically probably closer to 2000 with actual usage.

You also don't have a full minute to recall Magma typically. I average about 2 LMG procs per minute, so you are talking about 2 GCDs per minute to recall Magma Totem, 2 more to drop it, 2 GCDs per minute to recall HST, and 2 GCDs every 5 minutes to recall Elementals. That's 4.4 GCDs per minute. Sure, you will sometimes line them up and use one recall for multiple things, but even if it costs you 4 GCDs per minute, that is 8% of your total available casting time or about 2 Chain Heals per minute you aren't casting. I have a really hard time believing gearing for around 8000 less Spirit in favor of Crit/Mastery/Haste is going to increase your output by enough to compensate for 2 Chain Heals per minute, especially with how little value Mastery has and how weak Haste is outside of breakpoints.

Also, I did quite a bit of 10 man and flex with 10 man testing, and there is absolutely no issue with using the Chaining glyph in 10 mans. It makes CH perfectly viable as your primary filler on every fight in SoO. The "gap" that the 2 second cooldown creates can easily be taken up with necessary movement or casting an instant, etc. Single target heal usage even in 10 man will be way down, Resurgence mana gains will be down (because CH returns less mana than single target heals), the value of casting time will go up, which means that a relatively high Spirit build (12-16k) will beat a low Spirit build. They are pretty much equal right now, and all the changes do is skew the pendulum more towards having traditional Spirit levels and away from the gimmick Totemic Recall build.

[Gendori]

The mana cost reduction on Riptide is worth a maximum of 2500 Spirit if used on cooldown (and not glyphed), realistically probably closer to 2000 with actual usage.

You also don't have a full minute to recall Magma typically. I average about 2 LMG procs per minute, so you are talking about 2 GCDs per minute to recall Magma Totem, 2 more to drop it, 2 GCDs per minute to recall HST, and 2 GCDs every 5 minutes to recall Elementals. That's 4.4 GCDs per minute. Sure, you will sometimes line them up and use one recall for multiple things, but even if it costs you 4 GCDs per minute, that is 8% of your total available casting time or about 2 Chain Heals per minute you aren't casting. I have a really hard time believing gearing for around 8000 less Spirit in favor of Crit/Mastery/Haste is going to increase your output by enough to compensate for 2 Chain Heals per minute, especially with how little value Mastery has and how weak Haste is outside of breakpoints.

Also, I did quite a bit of 10 man and flex with 10 man testing, and there is absolutely no issue with using the Chaining glyph in 10 mans. It makes CH perfectly viable as your primary filler on every fight in SoO. The "gap" that the 2 second cooldown creates can easily be taken up with necessary movement or casting an instant, etc. Single target heal usage even in 10 man will be way down, Resurgence mana gains will be down (because CH returns less mana than single target heals), the value of casting time will go up, which means that a relatively high Spirit build (12-16k) will beat a low Spirit build. They are pretty much equal right now, and all the changes do is skew the pendulum more towards having traditional Spirit levels and away from the gimmick Totemic Recall build.

I Like how you ignored My Conc Pot argument, I see you're using them, Thats a Lot of wasted GCD's there, you could have gained much more mana back using a regular mana Pot, and using that 10 seconds for some well timed totemic recalls

[Tiberria]

I Like how you ignored My Conc Pot argument, I see you're using them, Thats a Lot of wasted GCD's there, you could have gained much more mana back using a regular mana Pot, and using that 10 seconds for some well timed totemic recalls

I only ever use them when something goes wrong, causing a large amount of extra mana to be spent, or bad RNG from LMG/HLG result in less than expected regen. Most of the time, I do use regular mana pots. I also glyph Totemic Recall so that I have the option to start recalling when I have the spare GCDs or need to dial up regen, but I choose to not recall HST a lot of the time for the extra throughput.

[Barrun]

Both arguments are flawed because ideal situations almost never happen. An extra GCD to cast Magma Totem during a meta proc is generally not a large compromise, if any at all because getting in a perfect number of healing abilities during a meta proc almost never happens, especially during movement. Conc pots are lost GCD's but have their time and place, it's generally not a compromise to overall performance over the duration of a fight, there are almost always lulls where the other healer can pick up the slack. Arguing ideal situations is pointless, time healing and time healing when healing is needed are vastly different things.

Magma Totem only costs 12,660 mana on live, that's an underwhelming amount of mana considering the effective cost of it. A glyph slot, two GCD's, convolutions with PE/SBT, and sacrificed HST throughput if you want the 14,100 extra mana. The sacrificed throughput will be increased while using Rushing Stream as well. Chain Heal glyph will be a huge boon in 10 mans and I image it'll be used on every fight and we have a fair number of good glyph choices otherwise, sacrificing a glyph slot for the underwhelming ideal benefits of Totemic Recall seems like a less than optimal way to approach potential mana issues.

[Gendori]

Both arguments are flawed because ideal situations almost never happen. An extra GCD to cast Magma Totem during a meta proc is generally not a large compromise, if any at all because getting in a perfect number of healing abilities during a meta proc almost never happens, especially during movement. Conc pots are lost GCD's but have their time and place, it's generally not a compromise to overall performance over the duration of a fight, there are almost always lulls where the other healer can pick up the slack. Arguing ideal situations is pointless, time healing and time healing when healing is needed are vastly different things.

Magma Totem only costs 12,660 mana on live, that's an underwhelming amount of mana considering the effective cost of it. A glyph slot, two GCD's, convolutions with PE/SBT, and sacrificed HST throughput if you want the 14,100 extra mana. The sacrificed throughput will be increased while using Rushing Stream as well. Chain Heal glyph will be a huge boon in 10 mans and I image it'll be used on every fight and we have a fair number of good glyph choices otherwise, sacrificing a glyph slot for the underwhelming ideal benefits of Totemic Recall seems like a less than optimal way to approach potential mana issues.

The Tradeoff is that you can Dump all your spirit and Put them into throughput stats Like making a big haste breakpoint then Going for crit, This is a much bigger buff to your heals then simply stacking spirit. If youre casting a lot of CH next tier, Haste is actually pretty darmed affective outside of breakpoints, Haste is really good throughput stat for CH. Crit is Really really good On healing rain, and riptide HoT's. If you dont like recalling totems Using Healing Surge during LMG procs is also highly effective as active Regen, those GCD's will then be used on heals instead of totems.

The Point i'm trying to make is this, Stacking spirit is BORING, and I am absolutely convinced its not optimal either, We have Active Mana Regeneration Mechanics Baked right into the class, and since its harder to calculate the numbers, we just settle for the Paperdoll "you regenerate this much mana". We're practically the Only healer with Active Mana Regeneration, and noone ever gets too excited at the prospect of actually gaming it properly.. I've laid down the hard numbers countless times, shown logs of it, compared to similar logs why, and I get told by the 25m guy "well, this doesnt apply to 25 mans". Fine then, So now we're discussing 10 mans, and the same guy who raids 25 mans is telling me, the 10 man raider "you're doing it wrong, because I did a little bit of PTR stuff". I wasn't buying it then, I'm not buying it now, and as always I have the numbers to back it up

[RestoMurilo]

As long as the meta gem keeps proccin' and magma totem still costs 30k mana ill be stacking crit and haste, thank you....

Am I missing something? Magma is 12.6k right now for me, hadn't heard it was changing. It is a nice trick though, don't use it often but if your meta procs and it's not a high damage time (and if Fire Ele isn't in use), it's nice little 13k boost.

[Gendori]

Am I missing something? Magma is 12.6k right now for me, hadn't heard it was changing. It is a nice trick though, don't use it often but if your meta procs and it's not a high damage time (and if Fire Ele isn't in use), it's nice little 13k boost.

Ya It's called I was thinking of something else, its 12.6k mana, but thats still a lot :P

[Barrun]

I don't think anyone is advocating stacking spirit. Increased Chain Heal usage is gonna require more mana regen, period. The amount recall offers is fixed with haste not affecting RPPM, we'll need to offset the increased mana usage from Chain Heal by means other than recall. Currently on the PTR 8k spirit and crit stacking just doesn't last long when relying on Chain Heal, which we will likely need to do. The compromise in throughput by going from 8k spirit to 12k spirit is marginal and if it enables the use of more Chain Heals it's well worth it.

[Leouch]

From PTR raiding

int > spirit up to 5k~ > crit > haste > stamina > str > agility > block > dodge >...>mastery

[Gendori]

From PTR raiding

int > spirit up to 5k~ > crit > haste > stamina > str > agility > block > dodge >...>mastery

I approve of this

[marklar]

and sacrificed HST throughput if you want the 14,100 extra mana. The sacrificed throughput will be increased while using Rushing Stream as well.

what is this sacrificed throughput you speak of? if you recall after the final tick, you should still get full mana return.