What would had happened if Sargeras went through the portal?

[Tyrannica]

if Sargeras freed the old gods though, then they would most likely be at full power.

The 'small raid of us mortal races' defeated them at a mere fraction of their true power.

We defeated them, they might had only a fraction of their power. But they still had the wisdom of aeons and still lost. Strange, huh?

[Deleted]

The Old Gods certainly considered themselves superior to him during the first invasion. Of course we killed two of them and some of their strongest servants, since then. But during the war of the ancients, they certainly felt that all of them together could surely defeat a single Titan, in the Well of Eternity trilogy. Whether it's true is unknown. It took a Pantheon of Titans to take down the Old Gods. It's possible Sargeras has gained enough power to match the whole Titan Pantheon since his fall.

The Old Gods still consider themselves superior to Sargeras.

In the War of the Ancients trilogy they were hoping Sargeras would be succesfully summoned into Azeroth so the destruction he would cause would free them from their prisons. Then they would torture Sargeras and make him beg for mercy. This book hasn't been retconned, since we get further clues in the expansions.

I just did Mechanar a few days ago, the end boss is a servant of C'thun (I think because of the model) and he states that the Old Gods' forces are as endless as the stars themselves, and that nobody can defeat them, "not even the mighty Legion". Yes, they directly say that.

Then in Wrath in the dungeon Ahn'Kahet the Old Kingdom the end boss Herald Volazj says that the Old Gods are neither living nor dead, they are outside the cycle. Meaning that you can't truly kill them, since they're not even technically alive in the first place. The Old Gods you kill in game might just be a physical part of their eternal existance that eventually regenerates.

Yogg-saron is the Old God of Death, and upon slaying him he says that you just did exactly as he planned. Surely he can't be truly dead if you just helped him with his plan. He's outside the cycle, and perhaps by slaying him you just made sure he could escape his prison and regenerate somewhere else.

All in all, I think the Old Gods are far superior to Sargeras. Heck, did you guys see what 1 Old God did to empower Deathwing? They made him practically unstoppable. Nozdormu had to betray his creator by forsaking his oath to not disturb the timelines, but he has to do it as it is the only way to stop Deathwing. The Dragon Soul is an incredibly powerful artifact, it's the one weapon that even the Burning Legion feared. And who made it? Deathwing did, but the suggestion came from the Old Gods. But Deathwing at the time of Cataclysm is even stronger than the Dragon Soul itself, that's why only such an insanely powerful artifact had a small chance of defeating him.

Now, we know from the books that Broxigar with an enchanted axe was able to even slightly hurt Sargeras. What would an Old God powered Deathwing be capable of? Well, I honestly don't think he could win against Sargeras, but surely he should be able to inflict more pain than one Orc. Heck, he might even get Sargeras bruised.

So what does that say about the Old Gods themselves? imo it means they can take on Sargeras. The game so far hasn't contradicted the War of the Ancients books, so I consider it canon. Just because the players kill the Old Gods' physical form, doesn't mean they actually kill the entity. They regenerate eventually, as their existance doesn't necessarily need a physical body. Heck, even Y'shaarj is dead. But when Garrosh gives the heart water it starts to live again, it regenerates and starts to speak again. They can always regenerate.

TL;DR: Old Gods > Sargeras (unless it gets retconned, which imo hasn't happened yet)

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We defeated them, they might had only a fraction of their power. But they still had the wisdom of aeons and still lost. Strange, huh?

They didn't lose, the players did exactly as the Old Gods planned. By killing their physical bodies the players probably ensured their freedom.
That's my take on things.

[Aquamonkey]

As for the "Old Gods could take Sargeras..." be aware that "Krasus speculating" is not a basis for anything; he's not omniscient. I remember there also being speculation that it would take all the Dragon Aspects to defeat Sargeras... they were barely able to defeat Deathwing.

Clearly Thrall was dragging them down.

[Mormolyce]

Would the Old Gods make Sargeras beg for mercy

No. This is just shitty book lore. The Old Gods are nothing compared to Sargeras.

[Pandragon]

Sargeras would never intentionally free the Old Gods. They got Deathwing to forge the Demon Soul (now Dragon Soul), and was going to use it to get Sargeras to free them without his knowledge. But it never came to pass thanks to Malfurion.

He'd come out the other side.



Sometimes.
The Old gods just kind of flail around breaking anything they can, they're like a four year old hopped up on sugar-laced crack. Chaos incarnate.



He'd certainly win a a round of fisticuffs.
But I think in terms of actual "power" the Old Gods are probably stronger. They're able to corrupt and unmake the Titan's work, and the Titans seem to be rather unable to successfully contain them... And Sargeras is a Titan after all, albeit a strong one. So I think Sarggie could beat them up, but if you put an old god and the dark titan in a room, eventually he'd gone insane and start listening to the voices.

The old Gods are FAR stronger then Sargeras in terms of everything. They are even stronger then the Titans. It takes several Titans to bring down 1 Old God. They manage to kill Y'Shaarj but lost one of their own in the process.

[Mormolyce]

As for the "Old Gods could take Sargeras..." be aware that "Krasus speculating" is not a basis for anything; he's not omniscient.

Well, according to Knaak a time traveling Orc once stabbed Sargeras in the foot (pssst ripoff of Fingolfin's attack on Morgoth in the Silmarillion).

The book lore is out of date, and was garbage to begin with, so I think we can safely ignore it.

[Deleted]

We defeated them, they might had only a fraction of their power. But they still had the wisdom of aeons and still lost. Strange, huh?

No its not strange at all, because they only had a fraction of their power, like you say.

[Mormolyce]

The old Gods are FAR stronger then Sargeras in terms of everything. They are even stronger then the Titans. It takes several Titans to bring down 1 Old God. They manage to kill Y'Shaarj but lost one of their own in the process.

And yet other lore states that the Titans easily imprisoned the Old Gods.

It only says the Titan "fell", and that "Titan" might just as easily have been a "Titanic Watcher" like Thorim. They're not always consistent on what is a "Titan", other than that we've never seen a real one in game.

[Aquamonkey]

The Old Gods still consider themselves superior to Sargeras.

In the War of the Ancients trilogy they were hoping Sargeras would be succesfully summoned into Azeroth so the destruction he would cause would free them from their prisons. Then they would torture Sargeras and make him beg for mercy. This book hasn't been retconned, since we get further clues in the expansions.

That part about tortureing Sargeras was speculation from Krasus, not a direct reference to what the Old Gods on Azeroth thought.

I just did Mechanar a few days ago, the end boss is a servant of C'thun (I think because of the model) and he states that the Old Gods' forces are as endless as the stars themselves, and that nobody can defeat them, "not even the mighty Legion". Yes, they directly say that.

The final boss of Mechanar is a BElf serving Kael'thas. I think you mean Harbinger Skyriss in Arcatraz.

"It is a small matter to control the mind of the weak... for I bear allegiance to powers untouched by time, unmoved by fate. No force on this world or beyond harbors the strength to bend our knee... not even the mighty Legion!"

"We span the universe, as countless as the stars!"

Also keep in mind that there are other Old Gods not on Azeroth to whom he seems to be referring. It's unclear what the full powers are of the ones trapped in Azeroth are.

Then in Wrath in the dungeon Ahn'Kahet the Old Kingdom the end boss Herald Volazj says that the Old Gods are neither living nor dead, they are outside the cycle. Meaning that you can't truly kill them, since they're not even technically alive in the first place. The Old Gods you kill in game might just be a physical part of their eternal existance that eventually regenerates.

-splice-

So what does that say about the Old Gods themselves? imo it means they can take on Sargeras. The game so far hasn't contradicted the War of the Ancients books, so I consider it canon. Just because the players kill the Old Gods' physical form, doesn't mean they actually kill the entity. They regenerate eventually, as their existance doesn't necessarily need a physical body. Heck, even Y'shaarj is dead. But when Garrosh gives the heart water it starts to live again, it regenerates and starts to speak again. They can always regenerate.

Kosak disagrees.

Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)

Y'shaarj itself is very, very, very dead. (Source)

Garrosh brings heart of Y'shaarj back to life using the pools of Pandaria. Fortunately, the whole God isn't resurrected. (Source)

All in all, I think the Old Gods are far superior to Sargeras. Heck, did you guys see what 1 Old God did to empower Deathwing? They made him practically unstoppable. Nozdormu had to betray his creator by forsaking his oath to not disturb the timelines, but he has to do it as it is the only way to stop Deathwing. The Dragon Soul is an incredibly powerful artifact, it's the one weapon that even the Burning Legion feared. And who made it? Deathwing did, but the suggestion came from the Old Gods. But Deathwing at the time of Cataclysm is even stronger than the Dragon Soul itself, that's why only such an insanely powerful artifact had a small chance of defeating him.

Murozond was bringing about the End Times to stop an even greater calamity from happening. The Old Gods are just small potatoes.

"You crawl unwitting, like a blind, writhing worm, towards endless madness and despair. I have witnessed the true End Time. This? This is a blessing you simply cannot comprehend."

Murozond yells: You know not what you have done. Aman'Thul... What I... have... seen...
(Aman'Thul is the Highfather of the Titan Pantheon, this may tie-in to the cryptic message Wrathion recieved that suggests the Titans may be gone)

Now, we know from the books that Broxigar with an enchanted axe was able to even slightly hurt Sargeras. What would an Old God powered Deathwing be capable of? Well, I honestly don't think he could win against Sargeras, but surely he should be able to inflict more pain than one Orc. Heck, he might even get Sargeras bruised.

The Old Gods might also be able to corrupt Sargeras' mind.

[Kaleredar]

Clearly Thrall was dragging them down.

Well, he WAS just standing there the entire time.

I mean, they could have at least had him in a /casting emote... but nope... just stands there...

[Hctaz]

I remember there also being speculation that it would take all the Dragon Aspects to defeat Sargeras... they were barely able to defeat Deathwing.

And guess where Deathwing got his power from? The Old Gods bestowed power onto him while he was licking his wounds in Deepholme making him incredibly stronger than the Titans had.
Quote from wowwiki: "In recent years, the whisperings of the Old Gods have gotten worse; the Old Ones' dread power steadily increased as C'Thun and Yogg-Saron stirred from their ancient slumbers, and the growing influence of the Old Gods has magnified Deathwing's power ten-fold. From within his lair in the elemental plane of Deepholm, Deathwing has awoken from his slumber and literally erupted into the world. His explosion into Azeroth was so powerful that it tore a rift between the Elemental Plane and Azeroth and caused earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and floods, reshaping the very face of the world. Very few lands have remained untouched in the wake of the devastating Shattering."

So if the combined aspects could possibly defeat Sargeras then the aspects minus Deathwing would be not be able to BUT the fact that the Old Gods could increase somebody's power to the point that they become ten times stronger than they already were as a titan creation seems to me that their power is not to be scoffed at. Blizzard may retcon the speech saying Sargeras would be no match for the old gods but AT THIS POINT IN TIME the only thing we know is that the Old Gods combined power would be far greater than Sargeras'.

[Kaleredar]

The Old Gods might also be able to corrupt Sargeras' mind.

I doubt that... Sargeras would likely know of the Old Gods, and wouldn't allow himself to be so easily "tainted" by them. Hell, he'd probably make it his second act after wiping out the mortals on Azeroth to specifically go AFTER the old gods.

[Theronus]

If the old god related lore continues to follow the Lovecraft's novels as inspiration, then Azeroth itself it's probably an old god.
Yes, the whole planet might be a living parasite. Which would explain why they didn't re-originate it in the first place.

[Kaleredar]

If the old god related lore continues to follow the Lovecraft's novels as inspiration, then Azeroth itself it's probably an old god.
Yes, the whole planet might be a living parasite. Which would explain why they didn't re-originate it in the first place.

I think that would have given the Titans all the more reason to just blow it to bits.

[Aquamonkey]

I doubt that... Sargeras would likely know of the Old Gods, and wouldn't allow himself to be so easily "tainted" by them. Hell, he'd probably make it his second act after wiping out the mortals on Azeroth to specifically go AFTER the old gods.

Sargeras is already distraught and crazy having succumbed to demons corrupting his mind and he had been fighting them for eons. I don't think it's much of a leap to say that the Old Gods are more powerful than the Nathrezim and would be able to fuck up his mind. Also, he left the Pantheon before they fought the Old Gods on Azeroth. With the retcons flying around about Old Gods being on other planets and not being indigenous to Azeroth, it's uncertain whether the Titans encountered any other Old Gods before Azeroth. But the in-game book suggests Azeroth was their first encounter and that specific tidbit hasn't been retconned.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Sargeras wouldn't release the Old Gods.

However, Sargeras at full strength would probably mean the end of Azeroth anyway. No Old Gods required.

[Tyrannica]

I just did Mechanar a few days ago, the end boss is a servant of C'thun (I think because of the model) and he states that the Old Gods' forces are as endless as the stars themselves, and that nobody can defeat them, "not even the mighty Legion". Yes, they directly say that.

Well that wasn't in mechanar, but Harbinger Skyriss in arcatraz.

To the rest, fine catch, its all possible, but lets see what will happen. If something will be retconned or not. If the old gods plans will be cummulated before or after the showdown with Sargeras. Blizzard just is a company that likes to use Icons like Sargeras to be the upper bad villains, though. Most of the villains are pretty humanoid and acting(whats a bit silly, but anyways). Deathwing was the only excepton so far, he even did not use his humanoid form, maybe cause for a reasion.

[Landin55]

The Olds are immersible in everything. Hell its hinted they wanted Sargeras to come through the portal and burn Azeroth....Why? Maybe it would free them....Or they just want watch shit burn......

[Tyrannica]

No its not strange at all, because they only had a fraction of their power, like you say.

missed the point with the wisdom of aeons. lol

with that you only need the power of a kid.....to rule the world actually.

[Kaleredar]

Sargeras is already distraught and crazy having succumbed to demons corrupting his mind and he had been fighting them for eons. I don't think it's much of a leap to say that the Old Gods are more powerful than the Nathrezim and would be able to fuck up his mind. Also, he left the Pantheon before they fought the Old Gods on Azeroth. With the retcons flying around about Old Gods being on other planets and not being indigenous to Azeroth, it's uncertain whether the Titans encountered any other Old Gods before Azeroth. But the in-game book suggests Azeroth was their first encounter and that specific tidbit hasn't been retconned.

Seeing as how he and his minions were so utterly obsessed with Azeroth, I'm sure they'd turn up the nature of the Old Gods somewhere, or he'd have known it from observing the Titan's actions on Azeroth in the first place.

While we don't really know how long the titans fought the old gods, they didn't seem to be corrupted by them, and old god whispers seemed to take thousands of years to mentally corrupt Deathwing and Loken. Also remember that the Old Gods were significantly less powerful 10,000 years ago than they are now, and wouldn't have had the sundering to help crack their prisons.