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  1. #21
    it's such a fucking worthless 2-set I wish they would just redesign it to something lazy like an auto-shot. at least that would do dps

  2. #22
    Dreadlord Kissthebaby's Avatar
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    its already lazy. and its a lazy cd.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Kissthebaby View Post
    its 4 , im on ptr right now. sure it will be 3 in a couple days, then back to 2 what they had at the beginning.
    its 8 sec

    Screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/100702319@N04/9575856884/

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    you are survival. it changes with specs, i think for MM is less and same with bm, bm is 4 sec.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    you are survival. it changes with specs, i think for MM is less and same with bm, bm is 4 sec.
    Oh didn't know it changed with spec, have to have a look in BM spec.

  6. #26
    Dreadlord Kissthebaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anjan011 View Post
    Oh didn't know it changed with spec, have to have a look in BM spec.
    Yea I was BM

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Perrito View Post
    they nerfed that are you taking that into account?

    what kind of uptime on RF you seeing?
    I was basing my original sims off the 8 second, I actually hadn't doublechecked the MM results since it was changed to 4 second. That definitely brings down the RF uptime (I see it cast 6 times in a 7.7 min fight) but it looks like it still results in a fairly decent amount of aimed shots cast between the 2 and 4pc bonuses. I should note that when I set the sim to only cast aimed shot when the speed is 1.5 sec or below, it looks like the slowest aimed shots actually getting cast are 1.224 speed, so I'm not sure what the exact tipping point is, and I haven't compared the results to simc which is probably more accurate at this sort of rotation testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danshot View Post
    it's such a fucking worthless 2-set I wish they would just redesign it to something lazy like an auto-shot. at least that would do dps
    Even at 4 sec, I see it simming at about a 3.4k dps gain for MM and fairly good amounts for the other two specs as well.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeherah View Post
    Even at 4 sec, I see it simming at about a 3.4k dps gain for MM and fairly good amounts for the other two specs as well.
    on an xpac where you are doing 200k+ 3.4 seems like nothing, i bet BIS is going to be a hunter playing bm with full TF or w/e is the new name in all slots. this is sad. arp was complicated yet you right now dont know if 2pc or even 4pc is enough to outdps ++ ilvl on heroic TF.


    ty for your post zehera. there is also a post i made that probably require more of your attention since you are so good with numbers, this is the post: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8718556?page=1

    i posted to see if ppl would go there and bump like/dislike and they started fighting eachother. will be amazing if u could review this post.

  9. #29
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkgunz View Post
    Maybe I misunderstand...but is marksman getting no love for pve? KC & ES are both rotation attacks...Aimed Shot only used on steady shot procs. Am I off base here?
    Aren't MM always keeping the Steady Shot proc up?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spl4sh3r View Post
    Aren't MM always keeping the Steady Shot proc up?
    You're thinking of two different things.

    The first is Steady Focus - it gives us 15% ranged haste and makes our steady shot generate 3 additional focus. This buff lasts 20 seconds and is gained by casting two steady shots in a row. This is up 100% of the time.

    The second is Master Marksman - it gives every steady shot a 50% chance to give a stacking buff. At three stacks aimed shot is instant and costs 0 focus.

    As for what blkgunz said about only casting Aimed Shot when it's instant, that's wrong. In pretty much any gear level I've looked into, it's a damage bonus to cast Aimed Shot during any major haste buff (Rapid Fire and Heroism) and to forsake Arcane Shot during those times. This means that on live, if you don't stack Heroism and Rapid Fire (which you shouldn't), you can have nearly two minutes worth of hardcast Aimed Shots on a 7.5 minute fight and everything is timed properly. With 5.4, we'll be losing about 30 seconds worth of hardcast Aimed due the the Readiness removal.

    I know that with the 2pc we'll have more rapid fires, especially since Aimed now lowers the CD as well, so hopefully it'll work out well.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ATron52 View Post
    As for what blkgunz said about only casting Aimed Shot when it's instant, that's wrong. In pretty much any gear level I've looked into, it's a damage bonus to cast Aimed Shot during any major haste buff (Rapid Fire and Heroism) and to forsake Arcane Shot during those times. This means that on live, if you don't stack Heroism and Rapid Fire (which you shouldn't), you can have nearly two minutes worth of hardcast Aimed Shots on a 7.5 minute fight and everything is timed properly. With 5.4, we'll be losing about 30 seconds worth of hardcast Aimed due the the Readiness removal.
    I haven't played a Hunter since 5.0.1, so I'm not up on Hunter info, and I'm curious: if hard-casting AS resets/disables auto-shot, how does that work out in the long run in terms of DPS? It seems like such a high usage of AS would have a severe effect on auto-shot performance.
    "I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act."

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Earth View Post
    I haven't played a Hunter since 5.0.1, so I'm not up on Hunter info, and I'm curious: if hard-casting AS resets/disables auto-shot, how does that work out in the long run in terms of DPS? It seems like such a high usage of AS would have a severe effect on auto-shot performance.
    On live, it's a small gain over using Arcane. In 5.4 I would imagine the gap only grows wider as the damage to focus ratio for arcane only gets worse while the damage to focus of aimed get's much better. I haven't had the chance to actually get on the PTR to double check, but I can't imagine it swinging the other way, especially since they added Aimed to the 2pc set bonus.

    Yes, you lose some auto shots which devalues Mastery a bit, but in my experience it's worth it and will only become more so.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ATron52 View Post
    On live, it's a small gain over using Arcane. In 5.4 I would imagine the gap only grows wider as the damage to focus ratio for arcane only gets worse while the damage to focus of aimed get's much better. I haven't had the chance to actually get on the PTR to double check, but I can't imagine it swinging the other way, especially since they added Aimed to the 2pc set bonus.

    Yes, you lose some auto shots which devalues Mastery a bit, but in my experience it's worth it and will only become more so.
    Interesting. Seems a bit backward for a Mastery built around auto-shot, but interesting nonetheless. Thanks for the info.
    "I will say, I think it passing odd that I am loved by one for a kindness I never did, and reviled by so many for my finest act."

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Earth View Post
    Interesting. Seems a bit backward for a Mastery built around auto-shot, but interesting nonetheless. Thanks for the info.
    Yes, this leads to Mastery being significantly devalued compared to Crit and Haste. From FemaleDwarf with PTR setting enabled, I'm seeing relatively significant gains (about 3%) in switching to ONLY Aimed Shot as a focus dump and ignoring Arcane Shot altogether. That is on top of the slight gains that MM would have naturally coming into the patch - we'll be in a much better place, by (I'm hoping) 5% or so.

    I tested MM in a variety of spec configs / gearing and best as I can tell, there is a minimal difference between Crit and Haste with a hardcast Aimed spec, leaning more towards crit by a TINY percentage. That's even taking into account crit being devalued in lat T14 / early T15 when we hit the 25% softcap during Careful Aim. Take my words with a grain of salt though - I encourage everyone to do their own testing. It's entirely possible I may be overlooking something.

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