"Cheap" tactics in videogames

[Hraklea]

There's no such thing as "cheap". If the allows you to do a certain strategy and you don't want your opponents to do it, you either learn how to beat it or play something else.

My friend is on the opposite side of this - camping is camping regardless, it's cheap and you're a noob for doing it.

If camping makes you a noob... what can we say about the guys that get killed by those "noob" campers?

[Ugadin]

Someone already mentioned backdooring in DotA, but there are plenty of other "cheap tactics" in DotA.

One of the most recent examples was at The Internationl 3. The team Na'Vi used two heroes together that allowed them to kill any single hero without much effort. This combo has been around since these heroes were added to DotA, but people just recently started to complain, because it won them a game at the biggest tournament of the year.

Video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB0tUrfDz6A

Valve themselves said that anything in DotA2 is fair game, which would include this combo, and any sort of backdooring ect.(back door protection pretty much makes it so any form of back dooring you can still do just means the other team isn't defending).

Anything that is not hacking or exploiting is fair game. If something is bugged, take advantage of it.

[Deleted]

If camping makes you a noob... what can we say about the guys that get killed by those "noob" campers?

Ask them, and they're the MLG pr0 gamerz that would beat you in a straight up one on one 120% of the time.

[chubtohd]

I'd say anything that takes away from the intent of the game (boss cheese exploits in WoW) or anything that makes the playability of the game a burden to others (turtling a flag or camping a graveyard in BGs) is a cheap tactic.

Doesn't necessarily make them wrong in my book...but you know you don't feel right doing it...so there is a blame issue on you for taking advantage of it, but also a blame issue on game devs who designed / don't fix the issues.

So, if it's not fixed after it has been brought to the designers attention, then all's fair in love and war in my opinion.

[Solitare-sp]

There's no such thing as "cheap". If the allows you to do a certain strategy and you don't want your opponents to do it, you either learn how to beat it or play something else.



If camping makes you a noob... what can we say about the guys that get killed by those "noob" campers?

Well theres only so much you can do if you get killed within a second of spawning...you can have all the skills in the world and you won't stop that happening..

[Heathy]

yeah the 'no rules in war' really comes into it, its also the difference between playing human players with logic based reasoning 'if i keep rushing down this path i will probably get killed'

camp or be camped. best way to fix this, and it is noticeable in most games these days, limit the camping spots, then you get more deathmatch.

I often play red orchestra which is probably the pinnacle of campy fps', but when you do get passed all the camps it feels more rewarding, ie its built around embracing camping like you would in a real situation instead of forcing everyone to go toe to toe.

the only tactics i consider cheap would be flat out cheating, spawn camping and ghosting.

[Solitare-sp]

yeah the 'no rules in war' really comes into it, its also the difference between playing human players with logic based reasoning 'if i keep rushing down this path i will probably get killed'

camp or be camped. best way to fix this, and it is noticeable in most games these days, limit the camping spots, then you get more deathmatch.

I often play red orchestra which is probably the pinnacle of campy fps', but when you do get passed all the camps it feels more rewarding, ie its built around embracing camping like you would in a real situation instead of forcing everyone to go toe to toe.

the only tactics i consider cheap would be flat out cheating, spawn camping and ghosting.

Yeah I think theres a big difference between camping and spawn camping. I see nothing wrong with camping itself, as it's just positioning yourself in a good position to make the most of the map...

[Hraklea]

Well theres only so much you can do if you get killed within a second of spawning...you can have all the skills in the world and you won't stop that happening..

In the FPS games I played, the spawning points were random, so you can't camp them 100% of the time.
If there's a FPS game where you can kill people and it is impossible to react, it shouldn't be played seriously.

[siafu]

only noobs call people campers. u should call them noobs 2.0. guys who think they know how to play but fail and complain about everything. if ur not taking full advantage of the map ur the noob.

[Dezerte]

Camping is a legitimate and sometimes the best strategy.

[Deleted]

Cheap goals on FIFA (Also known as Sweaty Goals)



Instead of showing a skill for the game by executing a good shot, you press the Y button or the A button to pass across the box for a player to slot in.

[TacTican]

Drawing some examples from the fighting game genre, "cheap" is commonly held to be something that you can't defend against, or that breaks how the game is meant to be played, and is a surprisingly restrictive definition.

For example, a lot of Street Fighter II players considered throws to be cheap since once the other guy threw you, you couldn't avoid the damage. However, this is neglecting that the defense against throws wasn't blocking, but rather spacing. Therefore, throws weren't considered cheap in a tournament setting because (in theory at least) you could always space yourself properly to defend a throw and stuff it with pokes.

What would be considered cheap in a fighting game tournament (leading to a match forfeit at the very least, and a tournament disqualification at worst) is, for example, intentionally pausing the game after your opponent has committed to a move but before you've made any counter move. The idea is that you only have a limited time to react to a move and pausing artificially increases the time allotted for you to think and counteract. Other cheap tactics include deliberately reaching over to your opponent's controls and making his character taunt, or unplugging his controller from the game - all of these are tactics which exist outside of the game proper, as it were. Another contentious issue is when player 1 can do a move but player 2 can't, not because of execution but because of faulty game coding.

[Deleted]

Cheap goals on FIFA (Also known as Sweaty Goals)

Instead of showing a skill for the game by executing a good shot, you press the Y button or the A button to pass across the box for a player to slot in.

While I will agree that these are cheap, it's rather the fault of the developers who made the off-the-ball movement of attackers pretty good whilst the defending in the box is pretty horrid. It's a FIFA issue.

Real life football goals, where you lay off a pass in the box to an incoming player is actually pretty great goals.

[Deleted]

As much as I loathe snipers and campers in FPS, I really can't call it cheap. They prefer the distance or immobility as a tactic and thats okay in my book, as long as they aren't cocky about their l33t skilz.

[Shinzai]

I have no issues at all with players who employ cheap tactics. I may however, for no justifiable or discernible reason start to single them out above and beyond any other possible target I could have though; Such as running past 3 of their team mates, to make a point of killing that one person in particular.

Countering cheap tactics and learning how people make cheap tactics work normally makes you a better player. If it's a straight up hack/glitch/bug, then that's something else altogether. But just because a guy's set up a radio beacon behind your base in BF3 doesn't mean he's satan incarnate, it just means you/your team weren't paying enough attention.

[QuiteTheNoob]

I hate camping with a passion, especially when you don't know where the campers are because the game doesn't have a freaking killcam.

[Deleted]

If a tactic requires no skill whatsoever that it can be done by a noob, it's cheap

[Drikkink]

Camping isn't my idea of a "cheap" tactic. Cheap tactics are things that really cannot be countered. Putting a WR or HB at QB to run non-stop is a cheap tactic. Using a running QB (unless it's blatantly broken i.e. Vick in a mid 2000s Madden game) is an annoying gimmick, yes, but it's not really something that's uncounterable.

In an FPS, I'd say the only thing I'd consider a cheap tactic is being able to snipe ridiculously well with no actual threat of death. In Halo on the computer, I'd play with some friends in this really laid back computer class (yes, someone from years before us had loaded Halo onto all of the school computers). One friend of mine would literally find a place where he could see all approaches to it, pull out his pistol (pistols have unlimited ammo iirc) and fire three headshots (which is all it took to kill someone with a pistol... 1 sniper headshot or 3 pistols) at anyone who came near him. The pistols fired so fast, it was actually harder to avoid than a sniper.

[Deleted]

Video clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB0tUrfDz6A

What on earth is that? Seems like a hook that grants you a free kill.


OT: Jew goals in FIFA. Or as Zildjian called it a sweaty goal (although I've never heard that term and that video isn't the best example).

[Volitar]

I remember this discussion back in Dota with people backdooring. People were really split about it. Some servers even banned people for doing it, even tho i personally see it as just another tactic. You can never cheat in a game imo unless you break beforehand-made rules, or directly hack.

Also, i remember when i played Oblivion, and in that game you could get 100% charmeleon through a mix of enchancment on armor. This did you so you practically stand right in front of a mob firing arrows up into his chin, and he would only go: "Huh, who's there?".

I've played some dota games where my team walked back into the well because i 'backdoored" a tier 1 tower 30 mins in the game.