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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    The orcs have not done anything they did not lean on their partner races for. This isn't a thread talking about the raw strength of a class, but a lot of the orcs' engineering and infrastructure was created by goblins and ogres. Not sure where the orcs would be without Ogre influence, actually.

    I think that each of the Horde races, given the opportunity, could subjugate the other. And that is part of the point of this expansion and raid. The orcs are NOT infallible and the "strongest" (debatable) warchief yet has been able to be taken down by the mobilized efforts of the Horde and even the Alliance.
    According to the lore, it takes the might of the Alliance combined with all of the Horde to bring down Garrosh's horde.

    I'd say he's pretty strong, and that that shows how strong Orcs are.

  2. #342
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    So, um....just out of curiosity, we should be lapping up Star Wars: Episodes 1-3 as the greatest films we could have hoped for since Lucas gave us Star Wars in the first place?
    His point is that you can't deny the lore presented in Star Wars Episodes 1-3 since Lucas gave you Star Wars. When that said lore was presented to you, you can't be like "oh i didnt like the moveis so I will deny the intention of the creator"

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Faroth View Post
    The whole fact that Tyrande or Malfurion could have interacted with Pandaren or even met Shaohao during their lifetime before the Sundering, etc, etc, etc.

    Yeah, the potential of the NE connection with the Pandaren (there's even the eastern feel to NE architecture) was yet another wasted opportunity.
    This sounds more like typical NE fanfic thought. Even if the War of the Ancients trilogy wasn't how history actually played out you'd still have to make a huge number of leaps for night elves, much less named ones like Malfurion and Tyrande, to run on over to Pandaria and interact with people there 'just because'.

  4. #344
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Tell me more about how important the dwarves and gnomes are to the Alliance storyline. And how important the worgen are, king standing next to varian n shit. Oh and the draenai seem incredibly important in the Horde/Alliance conflict. The only thing that's fanservice is that small bit with the Night Elves in pandaria...a land where their storyline couldve come out.
    I don't think you actually understand the implications of my comment. The conflict between Orcs and Humans hasn't been the driving factor for ANYTHING that has gone on inside of warcraft other than quest hubs, scenarios, and possibly on a technicality this whole expansion...

    For all the talk of that's what Warcraft is about, it sure seems like it's several races from both factions constantly having to 'save the universe' from the big bad. Mists was the first expansion where that took a side seat to the actual conflict and in the end it leads up to Alliance and Horde working together again.

    To even think that this has been about Orcs vs. Humans after WC3 is naive at best, completely ignorant at worst.

    Edit:

    We've been too busy saving World Trees, Dealing with extraterrestrial demons, and generally all sorts of stuff that could blow up creation (sunwells, lich kings, deathwings, etcs)

    Like people do remember that WC3 had those campaigns for all the races right? The story was certainly more than orcs vs humans.
    Last edited by Kelimbror; 2013-08-23 at 08:31 PM.
    BAD WOLF

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    According to the lore, it takes the might of the Alliance combined with all of the Horde to bring down Garrosh's horde.

    I'd say he's pretty strong, and that that shows how strong Orcs are.
    Yeah, exactly this. Sigh, people are so deluded. Orcs are the majority of the horde, and most of their muscle. Just because your Goblin is a beast level 90 warrior doesn't mean shit in lore. A Orc warlock will physically rip that goblin limb from limb.

  6. #346
    Dreadlord Amerin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    According to the lore, it takes the might of the Alliance combined with all of the Horde to bring down Garrosh's horde.

    I'd say he's pretty strong, and that that shows how strong Orcs are.
    I was thinking about this and you know what would be pretty cool? If they incorporated just for this raid, that Alliance and Horde players could group up in the raid for a 40 man or something, but since it's too late now, maybe sometime in the future.

  7. #347
    Banned But I Hate You All's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nivena View Post
    Looks like we don't have to wait till the story patch after 5.4 to see who our new Warchief will be:



    http://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warcra...ckton-1084635/

    (video interview is in english, written article in german)


    it will be Thrall!

    Garrosh is at 1%

    Graysue Magically comes back from being knocked unconscious and gets the killing blow on Garrosh with doomhammer.

    He thanks looks at the raid and says thank you heroes but Orc Jesus got's this.

    Chirs Metz than retakes the mandle of war chief and the a the alliance army withdraws.

    Voljinn says why did they just withdraw mon?

    Graysue the Chris metz avatar known as Thrall replies because they know I have plot armor

    TLDR;

    Still a better love story than twilight
    Last edited by But I Hate You All; 2013-08-23 at 08:35 PM.

  8. #348
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    A Orc warlock will physically rip that goblin limb from limb.
    You sure he wouldn't cast spells and melt faces? If a warlock is physically meleeing a warrior, he's going to get wrecked.
    BAD WOLF

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    His point is that you can't deny the lore presented in Star Wars Episodes 1-3 since Lucas gave you Star Wars. When that said lore was presented to you, you can't be like "oh i didnt like the moveis so I will deny the intention of the creator"
    His response was quoting someone who said they felt Metzen should be out and Trassk says they're ungrateful because Metzen gave them Warcraft to begin with. You don't have to lick the boots of the creator if you feel they've lost sight of what made the franchise beloved to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcaneshot View Post
    This sounds more like typical NE fanfic thought. Even if the War of the Ancients trilogy wasn't how history actually played out you'd still have to make a huge number of leaps for night elves, much less named ones like Malfurion and Tyrande, to run on over to Pandaria and interact with people there 'just because'.
    I'm just throwing examples, but even at the time of the first invasion, how old were Tyrande, etc? A few hundred years old? The pandaren never left their empire? There was never any interaction between the races considering NE history with furbolgs, etc? You could have had previously unnamed NEs older than our lore figures at the time of the Sundering or even introduced some sort of new stuff.

    You take two of the three societies that were around 10-12,000 years ago when there was a single continent and you don't make any lore around that so you can focus wholly on the humans and how they're stronger, wiser, and better than everyone. Sorry, but I'm in agreement with getting away from WoW being focused solely on orcs and humans.

    ......unless we're going to get some human based badassery re-founding the Silver Hand and having an actual force of knights in the Alliance again. Then I'm totally on board for that.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2013-08-23 at 08:36 PM.
    "There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Archangel Tyrael View Post
    According to the lore, it takes the might of the Alliance combined with all of the Horde to bring down Garrosh's horde.

    I'd say he's pretty strong, and that that shows how strong Orcs are.
    It shows how strong the weapons they use are, nothing more.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I don't think you actually understand the implications of my comment. The conflict between Orcs and Humans hasn't been the driving factor for ANYTHING that has gone on inside of warcraft other than quest hubs, scenarios, and possibly on a technicality this whole expansion...

    For all the talk of that's what Warcraft is about, it sure seems like it's several races from both factions constantly having to 'save the universe' from the big bad. Mists was the first expansion where that took a side seat to the actual conflict and in the end it leads up to Alliance and Horde working together again.

    To even think that this has been about Orcs vs. Humans after WC3 is naive at best, completely ignorant at worst.
    Naive at best, completely ignorant at worst. What is that, some sort of clever play on words to suggest either I am uninformed at worst or ... "NAIVE" at best regarding the lore? How exactly am I being naive.

    WoW Classic: Fueled by Horde PvP superiority over puny Alliance talks throughout every forum and every server. The conflict in most zones was between the Orcs and the Humans because of a deep rooted hate throughout the first and second wars.

    Dark Portal: Hey lets go back to where the ORCS HOMEWORLD WAS, most of the enemies were fel orcs, and a majority of the alliance outposts that were based around conflict was Humans going at the Horde aka the Orcs.

    WOTLK: Okay, it was the Undead that did some classy shit and caused a raid of the Undercity, but at the forefront of it at the end was Thrall vs Varian, which Jaina (another human) stopped. The deepest moments for both Horde and Alliance in ICC was between Saurfang and Varian. The TOC was a conflict essentially between Garrosh challenging the Alliance whihc was BASICALLY orcs vs humans.

    Cataclysm: GOD IM SO TIRED OF TYPIN THIS SHIT, If you don't think it's orcs vs humans just because it isn't spelled out for you, iono what to tell you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    You sure he wouldn't cast spells and melt faces? If a warlock is physically meleeing a warrior, he's going to get wrecked.
    Uh yes, physically they are bigger and stronger than any goblin.

  12. #352
    Blood elves have no leadership qualities, I don't see why anyone would promote them. Their presence and importance in the Horde's lore is also flimsy.

    Goblins are Garrosh ass-kissers they can all go to hell.

    Pandaren are generally hypocritical retards.

    If this was Warcraft 4, Forsaken would have probably broken off by now, at any rate, they're not gonna be the new leaders.

    Vol'Jin actively fought Garrosh, and so did the Tauren. So if it's not Thrall, the leadership will come from these guys.

    Personally, I'm caught between Tauren and Trolls. Trolls might produce some Zul'Jin type Horde, which is just way too sexy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    I don't think you actually understand the implications of my comment. The conflict between Orcs and Humans hasn't been the driving factor for ANYTHING that has gone on inside of warcraft other than quest hubs, scenarios, and possibly on a technicality this whole expansion...

    For all the talk of that's what Warcraft is about, it sure seems like it's several races from both factions constantly having to 'save the universe' from the big bad. Mists was the first expansion where that took a side seat to the actual conflict and in the end it leads up to Alliance and Horde working together again.

    To even think that this has been about Orcs vs. Humans after WC3 is naive at best, completely ignorant at worst.

    Edit:

    We've been too busy saving World Trees, Dealing with extraterrestrial demons, and generally all sorts of stuff that could blow up creation (sunwells, lich kings, deathwings, etcs)

    Like people do remember that WC3 had those campaigns for all the races right? The story was certainly more than orcs vs humans.
    Alterac Valley, WSG etc all represent Alliance vs Horde in a way which can't constantly be represented in the game through quests and raids, even though they try very hard to with multiple events across patches.

    (Patch 5.1, Anduin ALMOST FUCKING DYING TO GARROSH, etc).

    It's not about Orcs vs Humans, but it's always about Alliance vs Horde on some level.
    Last edited by KungFuFanta; 2013-08-23 at 08:44 PM.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    WoW Classic: Fueled by Horde PvP superiority over puny Alliance talks throughout every forum and every server. The conflict in most zones was between the Orcs and the Humans because of a deep rooted hate throughout the first and second wars.
    I'm confused on this one, since when PvP became lore? Heck, humans were leaders of only one BG and it were against Forsaken.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefach View Post
    hmmm....this make a very interesting point.
    Vol'jin doesn't really have a home capital so relocating for him wouldn't be such a big deal. As for Baine, Blizz could relocate the horde capital to TB with little issue since it's so close to Org (leaving Org the center of horde activity but TB being the capital in name only.) No way would it be Lor'themar coz too many ppl would complain that you can't fly in the new capital ... just more food for thought =)

  15. #355
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Naive at best, completely ignorant at worst. What is that, some sort of clever play on words to suggest either I am uninformed at worst or ... "NAIVE" at best regarding the lore? How exactly am I being naive.
    Umm...it's not clever at all. It's just a pretty matter-of-fact statement. The motivating factors for everything in the Wacraft universe since WC3 hasn't simply been a war between Orcs and Humans. I'm sorry that you can somehow overlook 99% of what we do in these games to believe it's about a war, but umm...ok. I don't know what to tell you at this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta View Post
    It's not about Orcs vs Humans, but it's always about Alliance vs Horde on some level.
    Somewhat, as in there is always that underlying tension. But how often do we actually fight eachother? Like how many world important events are predicated by that war? Almost zero.

    It goes like this:

    -Evil thing shows up to destroy all life
    -Both sides either alone or together fight it off
    -Petty squabbling and land swaps resume.

    That's pretty much it. Orcs vs. Humans didn't create a Lich King, didn't make a Deathwing, didn't sunder the world, didn't make the maelstrom, didn't make Ragnaros, most certainly 100% didn't bring the biggest bad of all bads looking for Azeroth. That honor belongs to the Elves.

    So please tell me how any rational person could think we've been playing Warcraft: Orcs vs Human 7 this whole time.
    BAD WOLF

  16. #356
    Lor'themar do not want to be Regent Lord least warchief

  17. #357
    The Lightbringer Vellerix's Avatar
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    I think the only acceptable candidates are from the Orcs, Darkspear and Tauren, that seems like a no brainer.

    As for all this it has to be an Orc business, I have mixed feelings. While I understand the need for there to always be an Orcish "Warchief", it feels to me at least, that to have another Orcish warchief that is the sole leader of the Horde as we know it so soon after one that has just raised hell would cause too much distrust, yes the orcs should still have a leader, but should his word be the ultimate word of all of the Horde's actions after what we have seen? I don't believe it should.

    I agree that the core of the game is Orcs vs Humans, but as time goes on, and more races are added, we're straying further and further from that, more races are joining our factions, and as time goes on there has to hit a point where there are more of those races combined than there are Orcs.

    Whoever it is, I can forsee him/her having alot less power than Garrosh had, surely these events have taught us that one person with that much power is not a good idea.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    That's pretty much it. Orcs vs. Humans didn't create a Lich King, didn't make a Deathwing, didn't sunder the world, didn't make the maelstrom, didn't make Ragnaros, most certainly 100% didn't bring the biggest bad of all bads looking for Azeroth. That honor belongs to the Elves.
    Actually, Orcs vs Humans did created the Lich King, the defeat that Ner'zhul suffered against the Sons of Lothar made the humans his first target as leader of the Scourge.

    But you are right about all the others.

  19. #359
    Stood in the Fire Balager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoncurry View Post
    Naive at best, completely ignorant at worst. What is that, some sort of clever play on words to suggest either I am uninformed at worst or ... "NAIVE" at best regarding the lore? How exactly am I being naive.

    WoW Classic: Fueled by Horde PvP superiority over puny Alliance talks throughout every forum and every server. Not Lore The conflict in most zones was between the Orcs and the Humans because of a deep rooted hate throughout the first and second wars. Warsong Gulch was Orc VS Night Elfs. Alterac Valley was Orcs VS Dwarfs and I'd say Arathi Basin was Dwarf vs Undead based on the Artwork. Oh and the largest Horde presence in Eastern Kingdoms where most of the Alliance lived, was Sylvanas and her Forsaken.

    Dark Portal: Hey lets go back to where the ORCS HOMEWORLD WAS to fight a fallen half-night elf and his blood elf friend, most of the enemies were fel orcs, and a majority of the alliance outposts that were based around conflict was Humans going at the Horde aka the Orcs.
    Remember that part where the Orcs and Humans joined together to stop Kil'Jaden coming out of the Sunwell? Oh wait that was the Blood Elves and the Draenei.
    WOTLK: Okay, it was the Undead that did some classy shit and caused a raid of the Undercity, but at the forefront of it at the end was Thrall vs Varian, which Jaina (another human) stopped By IT I suppose you mean the Ulduar patch trailer. Honestly it was more Thrall VS Garrosh The deepest moments for both Horde and Alliance in ICC was between Saurfang and Varian Or rather Saurfang and Saurfang. The TOC was a conflict essentially between Garrosh challenging the Alliance whihc was BASICALLY orcs vs humans. And the point of it all was to find the best warriors to send against the Lich King

    Cataclysm: GOD IM SO TIRED OF TYPIN THIS SHIT, If you don't think it's orcs vs humans just because it isn't spelled out for you, iono what to tell you.
    No please spell it out for us how Sylvanas fighting the worgen and getting the Horde all it's military victories was Orcs VS Humans. Or that bigass Dragon that had to be cut down. Hyjal was Druids(a class not available for Orcs or Humans) vs Ragnaros, Uldum was against Goblins, Vash'jir was against Naga, Twilight Highlands was Orcs Vs Dwarfs and both of them Vs Multiracial death cult.
    Did I just shatter your view of World of Warcraft? I hope so. Based on how you argue you probably want Legion invasion and Tinkers.
    Although wow lore will never reach the complexity of the Elder Scrolls, it is a lot less simple than you would like to believe.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Actually, Orcs vs Humans did created the Lich King, the defeat that Ner'zhul suffered against the Sons of Lothar made the humans his first target as leader of the Scourge.

    But you are right about all the others.
    Actually the scourge's first target was the nerubians wasn't it?
    "If you have to believe it on faith, you have no reason to believe it at all.” Aron Ra

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