Is this and other attacks a recurring trend or a horrible exception?

[Theinquisition]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...kane-wash?lite

So this guy was beaten to death...for no reason.

So this is the most recent random attack of several in the last few months. Is this a new trend that is going to increase, or a horrible coincidence?

2 Black teenagers beat a white WW2 Veteran to death for nothing. If it was 2 white teenagers beating a black WW2 veteran to death, do you guys think there would be more coverage and outrage?

Is this a hate crime?

It makes me Angry and sad.

People wonder why average law abiding citizens want the right to carry firearms for their own personal defense, this is good example why.

[AssimilateTruthx]

The one is Oklahoma is a hate crime (positing from what I've heard), the one in Washington is not necessarily one. I don't think it would have been more media coverage if the races were reversed, unless the offending party was not arrested or something.

[Underverse]

Wow that's really sad

[Theinquisition]

The one is Oklahoma is a hate crime (positing from what I've heard), the one in Washington is not necessarily one. I don't think it would have been more media coverage if the races were reversed, unless the offending party was not arrested or something.

Well im glad at least one person thinks the Attack in OK was a hate crime, I do as well.

I wouldn't say the attack in Washington is a hate crime yet, as the details behind the motive hasn't come out yet. Given the evidence presented so far though, it seems to be heading in that direction though.

I think those 2 animals saw a old white man and thought "there's an easy target.....FOR TRAYVON"

Of course that's my own speculation.

If these type of attacks keep happening, I think were gonna see more Self-defense shootings happen across the nation, along with the media outcry about it.

[Velaniz]

People wonder why average law abiding citizens want the right to carry firearms for their own personal defense, this is good example why.

That wasn't something a gun would have necessarily prevented. If they had overwhelmed the victim to that degree, they could've easily wrested the gun from his hand and shot him instead. You firearms apologists are cute.

[Theinquisition]

That wasn't something a gun would have necessarily prevented. If they had overwhelmed the victim to that degree, they could've easily wrested the gun from his hand and shot him instead. You firearms apologists are cute.

Calm down guy.

I'm not saying a firearm would have helped in this situation. What I'm saying is that it wouldn't be a stretch in the future if more and more people start carrying firearms for self-defense in the public. Stories like this definitely make me think that will be a unintended consequence, for better or for worse.

Of course that would lead to a slew of self-defense shootings in the future.

With stuff like this going on in our communites, can you really blame people for wanting to take a more pro-active approach to self-defense?

[Surfd]

People wonder why average law abiding citizens want the right to carry firearms for their own personal defense, this is good example why.

Because a firearm does jack squat to prevent you from being suddenly mugged / assaulted in a surprise attack?

It's like a guy I know in another forum said: A gun is going to do jack squat against a typical mugger assailant with a knife, because the vast majority of the time the first clue you have that the guy mugging you has a knife is when he sticks it in your back. The same thing would apply here. Having a gun is meaningless when 99% of the time you will never see an attack of that nature coming untill it is far too late. I mean, it isn't like these people are going to leasurely saunter up to the guy and declare "im going to beat you to death, prepare to defend yourself". They probably already had him clubbed to the ground before he even knew what was going on.

A gun is fine and dandy if you know the assailant is coming and have time to prepare. If you get suddenly jumped, you are probably getting the beating of your life before you can even go for the holster.....

[yetgdhfgh]

Pair of scumbags i hope get there just deserts

[Deleted]

With stuff like this going on in our communites, can you really blame people for wanting to take a more pro-active approach to self-defense?

No I couldn't blame them, but I still think it's not the answer to rampant violence to let everyone carry a gun freely. Truth in cases of "self defense" with a gun is probably really hard to find in court.
Anyway, it wouldn't have happened (or at least it could have been prevented) if there were more police patrols and surveillance, in my opinion. It's really sad a man can be beaten to death without anyone to intervene.

[Theinquisition]

No I couldn't blame them, but I still think it's not the answer to rampant violence to let everyone carry a gun freely. Truth in cases of "self defense" with a gun is probably really hard to find in court.
Anyway, it wouldn't have happened (or at least it could have been prevented) if there were more police patrols and surveillance, in my opinion. It's really sad a man can be beaten to death without anyone to intervene.

It is sad that no one intervened, I find it hard to believe that no one saw what was going on.

We have a sub-culture here in the U.S. that glorifies criminal behavior. Shits going to come to a head.

[Velaniz]

Calm down guy.

I'm not saying a firearm would have helped in this situation. What I'm saying is that it wouldn't be a stretch in the future if more and more people start carrying firearms for self-defense in the public. Stories like this definitely make me think that will be a unintended consequence, for better or for worse.

Of course that would lead to a slew of self-defense shootings in the future.

With stuff like this going on in our communites, can you really blame people for wanting to take a more pro-active approach to self-defense?

I'm hardly in need of calming down. I reside in what's probably going to be the last country in the world that's ever going to see the state of firearms crisis the US is seeing.

Firearms are hardly the answer to the problem of self-defense you're suggesting exists. If that were truly the case, some of the safest places in the world wouldn't also be the ones with the strictest firearms policies. If anything, firearms create the very sort of aggression that you would need a firearm to protect yourself against. You americans do a fine job of making this evident.

What you need are some seriously strict fucking penalties for acts of violence as wantonly sordid as the one you linked. Probably more education at the individual level, and a police force that's actually something to be reckoned with. That's really the only method that would work in the long run that doesn't create the problem of any potential James Holmes.

[Nola Saint 504]

That wasn't something a gun would have necessarily prevented. If they had overwhelmed the victim to that degree, they could've easily wrested the gun from his hand and shot him instead. You firearms apologists are cute.

Well he was killed without a gun so whats the difference? You anti gun folks aren't cute at all.

[Naxere]

I think after the ginning up of racial tension during/after the Martin case, more of these cases are being brought to light.

[Feldon45]

The one is Oklahoma is a hate crime (positing from what I've heard), the one in Washington is not necessarily one. I don't think it would have been more media coverage if the races were reversed, unless the offending party was not arrested or something.

The one in Oklahoma was not a hate crime, though Rupert Murdoch may be pushing that angle. The pictures of the kids is one black kid, one mixed race, and one white kid. And after they killed the baseball player, they were off to beat up a black kid for fun, which is when they got caught because the father of that kid called the police.

1 black + 1 mixed + 1 white =/= 3 black kids no matter how often Rush Limbaugh screams it. And going to beat up a black kid after the white guy is a pretty good indication it had nothing to do with race the first time.

[Velaniz]

We have a sub-culture here in the U.S. that glorifies criminal behavior. Shits going to come to a head.

This is part of the problem too. Educate those shitheads, and don't make it so easy for them to find themselves in possession of a gun.

[Feldon45]

Every last story you scrubs are coming up with to try and say black racism against whites is literally being dug up with no actual investigation in order to try and push this story that black people are racist to. Stop listening to to any source that has monetary reasons to make you afraid.

Heck, the link the OP used says its surveillance of SUSPECTS. Not anyone proven to have done anything wrong or even captured yet to begin interrogating.

[Grizzly Willy]

This is part of the problem too. Educate those shitheads, and don't make it so easy for them to find themselves in possession of a gun.

How would you go about the latter? I agree on education, and I have a solution in mind for that, but the latter I'm not sure how one would go about fixing.

[Mayhem]

well it probably is an indicator to why people want to carry guns, on the other hand, if you don´t see it coming, a hit to your back head and whoops a bad guy now has a gun too

i doubt a weapon in the hands of the 88 year old would have helped him much, though that´s just a guess

it´s a tragic and it should not happen in the first place, so don´t talk about would a weapon in the right hands prevent the crime but how could these things be prevented without anyone getting harmed

[Velaniz]

How would you go about the latter? I agree on education, and I have a solution in mind for that, but the latter I'm not sure how one would go about fixing.

By gradually restricting the sorts of firearms civilians are allowed to possess. Start by outlawing weapons such as automatic rifles, i.e. the kinds built specifically to kill large groups of people efficiently. Enforce this by imposing incredibly strict penalties for unlawful possession/distribution. Progressively work your way down to handguns, and educate your people better as well as upgrade your police force while you do so.

Soon you'll reach a point where you'll see that even handguns are hardly needed for self-defense. Then you outlaw those too.

Yeah, all of that is going to be ridiculously costly, certain facets of it might even borderline unfeasible, but I stand firmly by my belief that it's nothing a nation like US couldn't do if it wanted to. It's a pity that bill regarding rifles or whatnot Obama was pressing for got overturned.

[Deleted]

I think it's more of a horrible exception. As long as I can think one of these cases is covered in the news every few month.

What you need are some seriously strict fucking penalties for acts of violence as wantonly sordid as the one you linked. Probably more education at the individual level, and a police force that's actually something to be reckoned with. That's really the only method that would work in the long run that doesn't create the problem of any potential James Holmes.

Agree. As an example: There was a recent case in Germany, a 20-year old was beat to death by a group of 6 young men. As far as i know they got between 2years + 8 months and 4 years + 6 months - and that's still comparably high. Thus they lodged an appeal on points of the law. It remains to be seen if in the second lawsuit they get even less.