Will ESO being sub based affect WoW?

[Kickbuttmario]

I think it would yes. Here's why

- its not a wow clone, its doing its own thing with its own combat so it will have some sort of following
- swtor was a wow clone and it did bad
- gw2 did its own thing and is a very successful mmo

Honestly, the only thing thats going to kill TES:O is TES:O.

I'm in the beta. Its the worse MMO I've ever played. Worst beta I've ever played (I've been in quite a few). There so very much wrong with TES:O on so many levels that I can't see it doing well. Even the lore is being crapped on, and that should be the selling point.

Heard the same shit from GW2 and look how well that MMO is doing now.

[Himora]

The game looks really fun & interesting but i dont think its worth a monthly fee from what iv seen, rather wait 6 months when it goes B2P

[Trakanonn]

WoW's extreme subs were a fluke, a freak accident.
A happy coincidence perpetuated by multiple things outside of Blizzards control.
It will not be repeated. It CANNOT be repeated.

Considering MMORPGs are only 15 years old, Im gonna say its a bit early to speculate on if a game can ever top WoW. We're in the Ford Model-T stage of MMOs.

[Granyala]

Considering MMORPGs are only 15 years old, Im gonna say its a bit early to speculate on if a game can ever top WoW. We're in the Ford Model-T stage of MMOs.

No, we're not.
The market is extremely fragmented and there are a ton of games out there.
Many MMOs with medium to low sub counts are the future.

[Toppy]

I think it would yes. Here's why

- its not a wow clone, its doing its own thing with its own combat so it will have some sort of following
- swtor was a wow clone and it did bad
- gw2 did its own thing and is a very successful mmo



Heard the same shit from GW2 and look how well that MMO is doing now.

Let me tell you how TES:O works:

You have a multi button bar like GW2 (but more buttons to it). But unlike GW2, its less utility stuff and more damage abilities like WoW. You spend most of your time auto attacking while mashing random buttons, none of which work with each other because the skill system is shared between all classes.

The classes themselves are cookie cutter basic, though barely different from the none class skills. All your gameplay choices mostly come from 1. Which weapon you focus on (due to how abilities work you cant have more than one weapon focused without severely gimping yourself), and 2. Which armor you wear, since they stacked all the best stuff on armor. So, medium armor for stealth, light for magic, heavy for face to face, with NO OVERLAP (ie: no sneaky casters for instance).

They made a heavily restrictive character building system, and the gameplay itself is clunky and based on button mashing (and mouse clicking). Even blocking is almost entirely useless save for a foes occasional HEAVILY coreographed heavy move.

It's combat is what happens when GW2 and WoW meet. But with all the fun stuff scooped out for generic "hit them three times! hit them two times! hit them in a tiny cone!". Heck, it has a dodge button that doesn't even work. It has auto attack like WoW but its under the guise of mouse clicking (you essentially mash M1 as fast as you can because dodging and blocking simply dont work in the heat of combat.).

This coupled with races and locations having a massive amount of their flavor being removed (for instance, Khajiit Moon Sugar is now litterally just candy.), and lore being outright ignored constantly make for a game that isn't going to do well.

[Deleted]

I will never again in my life pay subscriptions to play a game. The only exception will be WoW if the next expansion will be worth it.

[valliant13]

Cata and MOP were voted the two weakest expansions recently.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-WoW-Expansion

Nevertheless, WoW has already been bleeding subs continuously since the beginning of 2011. TESO leaked beta footage did not seem revolutionary in any way and as a fresh game out of studio will never have the polish of WoW. I don't think TESO has more chance of affecting WoW subs than previous failed WoW killers.

People live for nostaligia when it comes to vanilla and tbc. I can guarantee the people that cry the most for the return to vanilla/tbc days would also be the first to jump ship as to overall how terrible it was. Also blizzard is the only mmo to cater to their aging playerbase. While we do have many young preteen kids playing wow nowadays we also have people in their 30s and 40s playing as well. I started playing when I was 19, Im 28 right now. I have far more responsibility than I did in vanilla when I could commit the game every day for hours on end. Most of what I just typed is in response to who you were quoting and slightly defending him(although im very fond of my TBC/vanilla experience).

On topic to your post. Cata was only terrible after tier 11. The expansion went completely down hill way too fast. Also DS was a joke of an end tier instance with only eight bosses for 10 months. MoP isn't over yet so it can't really be voted as a weak expansion. I feel the speed at which content has come out has been fast enough to keep me interested without unsubbing(however 5.4 could change that as it seems like we may see an 8-10 month stretch of it potentially). In terms of content however MoP is one of their finest expansions yet. The story while leveling on both sides has been absolutely fantastic. The raid content as well has been quite awesome and Siege does not look like it is going to disappoint. One of the very reasons people suggest MoP being a weak expansion is because of 5.0/5.1 and the daily grind. However there is a lot to do and I find myself out in the world more than sitting in shrine. That's more than I can say for WOTLK and Cata. Also people won't rate wotlk down, even though half of the expansion absolutely sucked. We got an amazing raid with ulduar(arguable the best raid ever) and then a year long of ICC(the instance and encounters were great however doing it for a year was terrible). However with wotlk we got a rehash in naxx which was an absolute joke, OS, and EoE(the latter two sucked imho) as well as possible the worst raid instance ever in TOC(the encounters were cool in their own merit but it should have never been a stand alone tier). However because we killed one of the most popular villains in wow lore, people tend to forget all the negative that wotlk gave us which was quite substantial. I would actually rate wotlk as a whole barely above cata personally however that is my personal opinion.

Now more on topic of the actual thread. They committed suicide by making ESO a p2p mmo. They should have focused guild wars 2 structure and followed suit. Mostly because the elder scrolls games have a very strong following on consoles now and console gamers are "cheap" even though throughout the generation they will throw sixty bucks countless times on annual releases of crap like call of duty, madden, fifa etc. Not realizing that there are a lot of benefits of a subscription mmo. However with all the options out there for mmos that are f2p or b2p I find that there's not many games that will get away with it anymore including world of warcraft.

[Halicia]

I will never again in my life pay subscriptions to play a game. The only exception will be WoW if the next expansion will be worth it.

Yeah, it kills me when a new MMO comes out that I *might* want to sub a little for, but they expect me to shell out $50-60 for a download, and then another $50-60 for a few months sub.... JUST TO CHECK IT OUT.

There's a sucker born every minute, but I'm done following hype. If they want to launch with a $100 pricetag, I can wait until they go f2p to check out the game.

[valliant13]

Yeah, it kills me when a new MMO comes out that I *might* want to sub a little for, but they expect me to shell out $50-60 for a download, and then another $50-60 for a few months sub.... JUST TO CHECK IT OUT.

There's a sucker born every minute, but I'm done following hype. If they want to launch with a $100 pricetag, I can wait until they go f2p to check out the game.

Honestly the only game im even considering trying out is Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn. However I will not dish out any money towards it or the subscription until I am bored in 5.4 and quit wow til the next or expansion or I need my "wow fix". Luckily it's only $30 to buy it, so I am okay with spending the money on the game itself considering they completely redid the entire game.

[Granyala]

Yeah, it kills me when a new MMO comes out that I *might* want to sub a little for, but they expect me to shell out $50-60 for a download, and then another $50-60 for a few months sub.... JUST TO CHECK IT OUT.

There's a sucker born every minute, but I'm done following hype. If they want to launch with a $100 pricetag, I can wait until they go f2p to check out the game.

Aye.
How goes the saying: Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.
I got burned on: AION, SW-TOR, TERA and to a lesser extent GW2.

I'm not falling for it again.

[Kathranis]

Considering MMORPGs are only 15 years old, Im gonna say its a bit early to speculate on if a game can ever top WoW. We're in the Ford Model-T stage of MMOs.

Granyala is spot on. We'll probably never see another monolithic MMO like WoW. The market is far too fragmented for a single game to appeal to that large of an audience again. A lot of companies are going to release a lot of MMOs which each target specific demographics, and those demographics are going to gravitate to the games that appeal to them the most.

Fantasy, sci-fi, post-apocalyptic, cyberpunk, modern, hardcore, casual, hack & slash, turn-based, point & click, strategic, class-based, skill-based, whatever, there's too much variety available in the market for a single game to feasibly attract all of the players and keep them happy.

[Deleted]

ESO's paying model is irrelevant since it will be catering to a totally different audience compared to WoW players. Majority of those planning to play ESO aren't the kind of people playing WoW, at least in the state it is nowadays.

This is all before the initial rush by curious and novelty-seeking players of course. They won't mind paying a month of two subscriptions.

[Deleted]

No.

Im not even subbed to WoW at the moment and have no plans to go back but ESO looks poor imo, I think it would have struggled with a buy to play model but the fact its subbed based will see it die a very quick death.

Wildstar looks about the best new MMO offering, im not sure how that will effect WoW but I think it will be a lot better than ESO.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, it kills me when a new MMO comes out that I *might* want to sub a little for, but they expect me to shell out $50-60 for a download, and then another $50-60 for a few months sub.... JUST TO CHECK IT OUT.

That doesn't make sense, use the free month to check it out. Hell sub for 1 month to get an extended look but subbing 3 months straight off the bat when your not sure? sounds kinda silly imo.

[Kickbuttmario]

Let me tell you how TES:O works:

You have a multi button bar like GW2 (but more buttons to it). But unlike GW2, its less utility stuff and more damage abilities like WoW. You spend most of your time auto attacking while mashing random buttons, none of which work with each other because the skill system is shared between all classes.

The classes themselves are cookie cutter basic, though barely different from the none class skills. All your gameplay choices mostly come from 1. Which weapon you focus on (due to how abilities work you cant have more than one weapon focused without severely gimping yourself), and 2. Which armor you wear, since they stacked all the best stuff on armor. So, medium armor for stealth, light for magic, heavy for face to face, with NO OVERLAP (ie: no sneaky casters for instance).

They made a heavily restrictive character building system, and the gameplay itself is clunky and based on button mashing (and mouse clicking). Even blocking is almost entirely useless save for a foes occasional HEAVILY coreographed heavy move.

It's combat is what happens when GW2 and WoW meet. But with all the fun stuff scooped out for generic "hit them three times! hit them two times! hit them in a tiny cone!". Heck, it has a dodge button that doesn't even work. It has auto attack like WoW but its under the guise of mouse clicking (you essentially mash M1 as fast as you can because dodging and blocking simply dont work in the heat of combat.).

This coupled with races and locations having a massive amount of their flavor being removed (for instance, Khajiit Moon Sugar is now litterally just candy.), and lore being outright ignored constantly make for a game that isn't going to do well.

Okay the lore I can understand but we'll see what they do in their release and post launch.

And for game mechanics, until I get my hands on the game with my computer than I'll make my choice, because I have heard the same stuff a year ago from Guild Wars 2 betas. "OMG this game feels so clunky, gawd the classes feel exactly the same, 10 abilities only, wtf Anet making the game simpler". Yeah and that was same before.

And no, I ain't comparing you to those guys, its just that we'll see how this game goes.

[Toppy]

Okay the lore I can understand but we'll see what they do in their release and post launch.

And for game mechanics, until I get my hands on the game with my computer than I'll make my choice, because I have heard the same stuff a year ago from Guild Wars 2 betas. "OMG this game feels so clunky, gawd the classes feel exactly the same, 10 abilities only, wtf Anet making the game simpler". Yeah and that was same before.

And no, I ain't comparing you to those guys, its just that we'll see how this game goes.

I hope you get the beta yourself, because its not worth buying, at least not right now. They make guild wars look like a paradise of build diversity.

[valliant13]

I hope you get the beta yourself, because its not worth buying, at least not right now. They make guild wars look like a paradise of build diversity.

I'll second this. While my playtime with it at paxeast was extremely limited. I wasn't near impressed enough with it as an mmo. It was pretty bad as a whole.

[Zafire]

I was looking forward to ESO more than I have any MMO since Final Fantasy XI (Which I played for six years).

To express my feelings about the P2P. I don't care that it offers a subscription. Far too many people exaggerate how broke they would be if they spent $15 a month. I make $9.15 an hour and only work eight hours of overtime roughly half the time. I have my own apartment, my own car which I worked very hard to pay off, my own utility bills, and my own grocery budget. I can take my girlfriend out to eat roughly twice a month, with maybe some movies and bowling on the side and I'm *STILL* not broke. $180/year is half my paycheck in one week when I work overtime, and if I really like ESO it will be less than that since I could purchase several months at once for a discount. Final Fantasy XI is STILL P2P and it's older than WoW and has a steady subscription base

One meal at applebee's is $60, me and my girlfriend going to the movies is $16, buying Iced caps five times a month is $15. One case of mountain dew is roughly $15. I mean, c'mon. Really? $.50 a day for entertainment is pretty cheap. In bottle redemption states you could probably spend thirty minutes of time a day and find ten soda cans to return for fifty cents. You'd be doing your world a favor AND getting entertainment! Ride your bike to work twice a week. If it's too far, bring your bike with you, park somewhere else, and ride your bike the rest of the way. There are so many ways you could potentially get $15 and some of them might actually improve you as a person.

My rant about the subscription base aside, what REALLY makes the game so horrible? I did a little googling and couldn't find a review from someone who has played it.

[hrugner]

One meal at applebee's is $60, me and my girlfriend going to the movies is $16, buying Iced caps five times a month is $15. One case of mountain dew is roughly $15. I mean, c'mon. Really? $.50 a day for entertainment is pretty cheap. In bottle redemption states you could probably spend thirty minutes of time a day and find ten soda cans to return for fifty cents. You'd be doing your world a favor AND getting entertainment! Ride your bike to work twice a week. If it's too far, bring your bike with you, park somewhere else, and ride your bike the rest of the way. There are so many ways you could potentially get $15 and some of them might actually improve you as a person.

I'm jealous of your movie ticket prices. Though how Applebee's could justify charging 60$ for two plates of their "food" is insanity. I'm sure there's a better and less expensive restaurant near you, please look.

[valliant13]

I'm jealous of your movie ticket prices. Though how Applebee's could justify charging 60$ for two plates of their "food" is insanity. I'm sure there's a better and less expensive restaurant near you, please look.

Depends on the location. Applebee's is HUGE in the southern part of america. however Im jealous of his movie ticket prices too. It's like 12.50(non imax) a person where I am.

[Thelxi]

No, not at all. Been there done that.

Until a game comes out that has the same kind of magic WoW has, people will keep returning to WoW. Blizzard will probably beat them to it though with Titan anyway.