10 man normal group wiping on Council

[Deleted]

Hi,

We're a casual raiding team who want to progress through Throne of Thunder normal(10 man). We've faced a few issues on Jin'rokh and Horridon but they were rather easy, now we're facing the Council of Elders and we wipe in every way possible. We're not talking 1-2 wipes, but >10 on an evening(About 40 total, with different raid compositions). Last night we got a kill, but I believe that was mere luck, not an actual improvement.

We start out by nuking Sul(Cleaving onto Malak) until Malak has about 40 dark energy. Then we switch over to malak, getting rid of the possessions in the normal order, while our rogue stays on Sul. That way we hope to ensure(And managed to on our kill) that Sul dies before he becomes possessed, because Sandstorm and the living sands just instantly wipes us.

I have these logs from last night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/kw96eo0r0m67ch6f/
You can find the previous logs on there as well.

One thing I did notice is that 3 of our DPS are doing just terrible, terrible DPS. While I average almost 150k in the raid we have 3 DPS doing under 100k DPS, one of them having like 525 item level.

I think we're probably all making mistakes, but we could use some help pointing that out. And if anybody who has any knowledge of those 3 classes could tell me why they're doing that kind of DPS I'd massively appreciate it.

Thanks.

[stormgust]

You're DPS is indeed quite low. Did you try a two healing strategy? Or alternatively, solo tanking (guardian, not the paladin) using three healers?
That should increase the DPS considerably. Also, with all three of the tankable ones stacked, cleave damage should allow you to ignore frostking until 50 energy.

Then take care of the following:
People die to quicksand. I can't see wether it's the dispeller at fault, or they're just to lazy to move out of it. You need to improve here.
Also, how can Wentholy - a retribution paladin - even die to Quicksand, unless he's running into it on purpose?

[Deleted]

You're DPS is indeed quite low. Did you try a two healing strategy? Or alternatively, solo tanking (guardian, not the paladin) using three healers?
That should increase the DPS considerably. Also, with all three of the tankable ones stacked, cleave damage should allow you to ignore frostking until 50 energy.

Then take care of the following:
People die to quicksand. I can't see wether it's the dispeller at fault, or they're just to lazy to move out of it. You need to improve here.
Also, how can Wentholy - a retribution paladin - even die to Quicksand, unless he's running into it on purpose?

I don't know, I've asked him about it and he says the movement hurts his DPS, but I'm a caster and I do double his DPS in some attempts. I don't know whether he's just doing horribly at playing his class or if there's something else, but he claims to have no idea.

[Zantos]

Over all dps seems low with the possible exception of the 503 ret paladin. However, his gear isn't optimized. I would see about having your raiders take a hard look at their gear and figure out what they are doing wrong. Then look at their rotation. For example, it seems your ret paladins Inquisition up time is a sorry 20.6%. That is a MAJOR dps buff they just don't have. The monk also has wayyy to high hit. Like his hit is 12.31% when you only need 7.5% as melee. The hunter as well has too much hit, at around 10% now but only needs 7.5.

Try and get them to fix their gear and their rotations stat. You will hit much bigger dps checks, like primordius later on where having those three dps may hurt. Especially since they all three seem to be getting much more hit / exp then what is needed. Best of luck to ya.

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Also, how can Wentholy - a retribution paladin - even die to Quicksand, unless he's running into it on purpose?

No kidding. Hand of freedom removes the snare that is put onto a paladin from Quicksand. No reason for him to sit in it, or die. He does have a bubble.

[Deleted]

Also, how can Wentholy - a retribution paladin - even die to Quicksand, unless he's running into it on purpose?

Caster standing on melee and paladin not running away when the puddle comes.

No caster to melee on this fight when Sul is alive. Otherwise it is also bad if player doesn't notice Biting Cold on them which hurts a lot.

[Flura]

make 2 camps, range-dd and healer spread just a little bit when someone has the debuff with 5 stacks (malakk active) make sure 2 ranges come to the debuffed person (debuff now 0 stacks) and dispell people in sandtraps.

when malakk is not obsessed (dark) make sure the debuffed person stands alone and is not killing himself when kazra jin is activ.

priest can use Void Tendrils to root the Shadowed Loa Spirit (which needs to bekilled fast)

[Deleted]

Over all dps seems low with the possible exception of the 503 ret paladin. However, his gear isn't optimized. I would see about having your raiders take a hard look at their gear and figure out what they are doing wrong. Then look at their rotation. For example, it seems your ret paladins Inquisition up time is a sorry 20.6%. That is a MAJOR dps buff they just don't have. The monk also has wayyy to high hit. Like his hit is 12.31% when you only need 7.5% as melee. The hunter as well has too much hit, at around 10% now but only needs 7.5.

Try and get them to fix their gear and their rotations stat. You will hit much bigger dps checks, like primordius later on where having those three dps may hurt. Especially since they all three seem to be getting much more hit / exp then what is needed. Best of luck to ya.

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No kidding. Hand of freedom removes the snare that is put onto a paladin from Quicksand. No reason for him to sit in it, or die. He does have a bubble.

I'll talk to him about Inquisition, a quick search learns that it's his #1 priority skill. His gear is quite bad though, a low ilvl with pvp items, there's no excuse for running around in sub-par gear when it's so easily available through LFR, HC Scenarios and Valor points.

[MerinPally]

I want to see your protection paladins gear. How on earth can he only do 27k dps on a cleave fight. What stats is he stacking? I can guarantee you it's wrong with numbers like that. Do 100k in LFR in 506 gear. Should do at least double that WITHOUT vengeance. Even then, you're better letting him have the vengeance because prot pala dps >>>>> bear dps.

[Deja Thoris]

I want to see your protection paladins gear. How on earth can he only do 27k dps on a cleave fight. What stats is he stacking? I can guarantee you it's wrong with numbers like that. Do 100k in LFR in 506 gear. Should do at least double that WITHOUT vengeance. Even then, you're better letting him have the vengeance because prot pala dps >>>>> bear dps.

The prot paladin is not cleaving at all. He hitting Marlii alone off to the side. Their tactic is flawed.

The root cause of your problems is your tactic

You need to stack ALL bosses (except roly poly dude ofc) This means moving Sul to Marlii or interrupting Marlii until she moves to Sul since shes a caster.
1) The loa add will heal. ignore it
2) Now all bosses are on top of each other, that's cleave. Your dps will increase dramatically because of this. Especially the paladin.


I shall now pick on the paladin (constructively)
1) He is not using seal of insight. It's mandatory. Not using it is the biggest WTF ever. EVER. EVERRRRRR! (get the point? :P) It heals on melee swings etc and its a LOT of healing.
2) Execution sentence is shit for prot. Lose it forever (in his case atm, it does have its uses). Get holy prism or lights hammer. I suggest prism on this fight.
3) He needs to look at the rotation in the paladin section. In 513 seconds with holy avenger talented (free holy power) he fired of shield of the righteous 33 times) His rotation is borked.
4) He should glyph battlehealer but since its getting gutted next patch we can say meh to this point

Fix points 1 to 3 and he will improve dramatically.

Your bear. (I know next to nothing about bears but just looking at buff times)
1) Savage defense 15% uptime is terribad
2) Used barkskin 3 times, used berserk 2x, used might of ursoc once, survival instincts once.
3) I'd imgaine thrash is important in cleave fights, he used it 16 times out of a possible 85 based on fight length. Rotation issues need sorting out. Rotation and cd usage is at the heart of every class. Google how to do it and smack a dummy until its perfect.

The last parts of point 3 go for all your players. It's not a big investment in time and it will make raiding more fun since stuff dies instead of you.

The rogue
Hes sitting on Sul the whole fight yet he managed 9 interrupts? I guess it beats the bear who managed one. Sul's sandbolt does a lot of damage. It comes from an interuptable cast and was responsible for 10% of all damage taken in your kill. Interupt the damn thing :P That's what sitting people on sul is for as much as the damage.