T15 4pc Too Stronk?! NONSENSE

[Verain]

I could understand this nerf a few weeks into SoO but on the 1st day? That means rogues will enter SoO already at a disadvantage.

They should offer us compensation for it. For instance, it could increase eviscerate and envenom by a few percent.

As it is, our dps will drop sharply when we need it most.


They had to solve the issue, I get that. But my dps on day 1 shouldn't be shitified.

[whathump]

They should offer us compensation for it. For instance, it could increase eviscerate and envenom by a few percent.

As it is, our dps will drop sharply when we need it most.


They had to solve the issue, I get that. But my dps on day 1 shouldn't be shitified.

I figure I'm just going to see if I can collect 2 TF off pieces before 5.4 so I'm not completely shafted the first week or two.

[Resentful]

They should offer us compensation for it. For instance, it could increase eviscerate and envenom by a few percent.

As it is, our dps will drop sharply when we need it most.


They had to solve the issue, I get that. But my dps on day 1 shouldn't be shitified.

You're going to replace your shit It's not a huge deal :P

[fierydemise]

They really don't need to compensate assassination for the nerf because it is a pretty trivial one, on the order of a about 1-1.5% from the previous PTR baseline. Assassination is still looking at at least a 3% buff on patch day regardless. Also playing around with ShadowCraft it appears T15 4pc is still strong enough for assassination that replacing it with HTF off set pieces isn't worth it but only just.

Also the ShadowCraft webUI has been updated with these latest changes so if you want to look for yourself you can.

[Eazy]

Thank you Lethim, someone just posted 65 mln DPS rogue to GC and now Shadow Blades are nerfed.

[Verain]

They really don't need to compensate assassination for the nerf because it is a pretty trivial one, on the order of a about 1-1.5% from the previous PTR baseline. Assassination is still looking at at least a 3% buff on patch day regardless.

Oh! Never mind then, I rescind my previous bitching.

[whathump]

T15: http://tinyurl.com/p5tkf73
T16: http://tinyurl.com/pl3d2eq

Well, only a 7k dps difference showing in Shadowcraft. Not much of a nerf to t15. It seems it will be viable until you get full heroic t16.

[Dropndestroyrr]

Any guilds pushing for super fast and competitive progression will probably consider sitting rogues for at least a few fights in the beginning, it's a semi-major nerf for Assassination when the patch hits.

Actually, no they wouldn't. Read fiery's post.

[Kulestu]

Yeah, I went to delete my post, forgot about that and hadn't read his post yet.

[Sesshou]

T15: http://tinyurl.com/p5tkf73
T16: http://tinyurl.com/pl3d2eq

Well, only a 7k dps difference showing in Shadowcraft. Not much of a nerf to t15. It seems it will be viable until you get full heroic t16.

But do we know if the gcd reduction is still in there?

[whathump]

But do we know if the gcd reduction is still in there?

It is. Just tested it now.

[timbo117]

With the rogue buffs coming out this patch, i'm not surprised at this nerf nonetheless i think nerfing the 4p by 25% is a bit far since assassination benefits from it so much with the extra energy you have leftover after SB is finished, would of been more reasonable to put it down to 20% in my opinion but what do you guys think could of been done better?

[shadowboy]

T15: http://tinyurl.com/p5tkf73
T16: http://tinyurl.com/pl3d2eq

Well, only a 7k dps difference showing in Shadowcraft. Not much of a nerf to t15. It seems it will be viable until you get full heroic t16.

Try using either helm, chest, or legs for offset piece in your T15 set.. shoulders and gloves have a smaller stat budget so using SoO shoulders for offset piece leaves you with less stat budget than using a SoO helm, chest, or legs for non-set piece. This is the reason why sub's BiS in T13 used T12 shoulders and gloves.

[Deleted]

With the rogue buffs coming out this patch, i'm not surprised at this nerf nonetheless i think nerfing the 4p by 25% is a bit far since assassination benefits from it so much with the extra energy you have leftover after SB is finished, would of been more reasonable to put it down to 20% in my opinion but what do you guys think could of been done better?

Actually 15% is still somewhat too strong for combat. Try it yourself, heroic t15 4p is better than normal t16 4p. So even 18 ilvls difference are somewhat too less.

[Sesshou]

With the new gear maybe it is still fairly good (also new bonuses are not super great for combat either iirc), but the real problem is the 25-30k dps loss we will get at launch for 5.4. Combat is already not a top dps spec, a loss of that size will make it utter crap. Such BS that combat yet again this tier is utter crap at the start until you have actually killed the new tier and gotten gear from it.

[fierydemise]

With the new gear maybe it is still fairly good (also new bonuses are not super great for combat either iirc), but the real problem is the 25-30k dps loss we will get at launch for 5.4. Combat is already not a top dps spec, a loss of that size will make it utter crap. Such BS that combat yet again this tier is utter crap at the start until you have actually killed the new tier and gotten gear from it.

The combat T16 set bonuses aren't amazing but they aren't terrible. It comes out to about a 2-2.5% dps increase which is on the low end of the typical 4pc range but it certainly isn't a bad bonus. Combat will basically make up that 10% drop off at the start of the tier as soon as you get an AoC, even an LFR or flex AoC will make up most of that difference so combat should be reasonably competitive for most of progression. Additionally T16 has a ton of good combat fights that will make combat probably worth playing even if it is at a single target disadvantage.

[Pickwickman]

Sorry for my rude interruption; but I wanted to just note that seeing huge dps increase from certain trinkets shouldn't be surprising anymore. Especially after experiencing throne of thunder.

Warlocks and UVLS and monks with ToRo saw insanely huge dps boosts with their trinkets.

Not to mention that the CD reduction trinkets will make for some retarded dps increases for most classes aswell.

I think it's actually fun to have gamechanging items in the last tier; like gurthalak and these trinkets.

But yeah, until you get them it's underwhelming to NOT have them.

[Sesshou]

The combat T16 set bonuses aren't amazing but they aren't terrible. It comes out to about a 2-2.5% dps increase which is on the low end of the typical 4pc range but it certainly isn't a bad bonus. Combat will basically make up that 10% drop off at the start of the tier as soon as you get an AoC, even an LFR or flex AoC will make up most of that difference so combat should be reasonably competitive for most of progression. Additionally T16 has a ton of good combat fights that will make combat probably worth playing even if it is at a single target disadvantage.

Well I didn't really mean the new bonuses were substantially weaker than the average of the past set bonuses, more so that it is just 'ok' and isn't going to blow away even the nerfed version of the set bonus that was so good it made or broke the spec.

And I absolutely don't think that the fact that the AoC almost recovers the dps loss makes starting the tier with crap damage acceptable. You need 1 specific trinket off 1 specific boss that you can very easily get rng'd on. I do 25s and coining him every time, it took over 10 heroic Jin kills for our guild to see a renataki's (dunno if some one else coined it, but I didn't and it didn't drop until then). This is also assuming you get the first one (which if you consider who gets the most from it, shouldn't be an issue but never know). You did mention LFR and flex so yeah you get 2 extra shots at a lower ilvl one, but I think its off the 7th boss which is going to be 2nd or 3rd sections and not even available to run until who knows when. You could easily go a month into the tier and not have that trinket.

[Fluorescent0]

Well I didn't really mean the new bonuses were substantially weaker than the average of the past set bonuses, more so that it is just 'ok' and isn't going to blow away even the nerfed version of the set bonus that was so good it made or broke the spec.

And I absolutely don't think that the fact that the AoC almost recovers the dps loss makes starting the tier with crap damage acceptable. You need 1 specific trinket off 1 specific boss that you can very easily get rng'd on. I do 25s and coining him every time, it took over 10 heroic Jin kills for our guild to see a renataki's (dunno if some one else coined it, but I didn't and it didn't drop until then). This is also assuming you get the first one (which if you consider who gets the most from it, shouldn't be an issue but never know). You did mention LFR and flex so yeah you get 2 extra shots at a lower ilvl one, but I think its off the 7th boss which is going to be 2nd or 3rd sections and not even available to run until who knows when. You could easily go a month into the tier and not have that trinket.

It's from Sha of Pride, the fourth boss. I don't know whether it'll be available in flex week one or two.

[Sesshou]

It's from Sha of Pride, the fourth boss. I don't know whether it'll be available in flex week one or two.

Well thats a bit better but still. Either week 1 or 2 from flex and then probably 2-3 from LFR. So in the first 4 weeks you can have (assuming best case that he is in the first section) 11 chances with 4 of those being from an actual loot table instead of low individual chances. It wouldn't take all that bad of luck to not get one in the first 11 shots.