Mage vs. Hunter t16(Siege of Orgrimmar)

[Methusula]

Fair enough, but fire mages also tend to scale pretty damn well compared to most other classes. Also, as I said above that, a 10% nerf to current fire performance would drop fire to about 3rd, at the worst.

Yeah, Fire will be fine. We all expected a nerf. They don't seem to have over done it this time for once.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Big question. Do Fire Mages LIKE being balanced around Combustion?

[Deleted]

Thanks.
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Previously i mentioned that hunters are in bad spot in terms of aoe and multidot. Let me explain.
I didn't mean that we are behind fire mages in those aspects - in general, there are no fights, where hunters shine.

Most classes win hard in aoe situations. We come close on sv, downside - survival is not competitive single target.
Multidot - hands down, u know what i talk about.

And even single target - Bm hunters are step behind other pures.
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I was almost sure about rerolling.. before blizzard gave hunter 3-4% single target buff and mages about 10% nerf.
From last 20 posts i got that combustion nerf wont be class breaking - mages will come on top with incredible scaling. Thanks.

What about in t16 fights - not that interested in single target max damage.
Siege of Orgrimmar bosses specific.
I know, some of you have watched fights and know better - is there any fights, where hunters will come on top of the mages?
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I also know, it is PTR - still, i am very interested in hearing, what do you guys think.
Appreciate your help a lot.

I also know, some of you will say "just play whichever class u have most fun with" - but the truth is, both classes are pretty amazing.
I am having a blast on both - looking for min/max class choice for t16. Just to help our raid as much as i can as pure dps.

Thanks a lot!

[Kulestu]

Big question. Do Fire Mages LIKE being balanced around Combustion?

The ones I know hate it, and are semi-glad for the nerf. Obviously no one wants nerf, but it's not fun to have the entirety of your damage based around a move that does its damage based on RNG. Obviously trinket procs and crit chance effect everyone, but fire mages are up there with DKs and warlocks. Any DoT class has an insane reliance on RNG. Get your trinkets to line up with a double crit pyroblast and alter time and your damage will soar. It won't be bad without it, but no other class really has such a huge "swing" in the numbers.

[Vynestra]

Hello.

Last few years i have been playing hunter as my main, but always keep my mage as nr.1 alt.

Lately hunters are not best class to raid with, so i was thinking about rerolling mage?
Already geared up mage(about same item level) + done legendary chain.

I know rotation, nice Weak auras profile + having fun on both classes.
Only downside - i only enjoy fire mage, not going to roll arcane/frost no matter what.

After Combustion nerf for 60% + nice buff to hunter single target damage, i wonder if it is still worth rerolling?
Or combustion nerf is going to break class?
How do you think?

Thanks.

First of all combustion doesn't make or break the class. That is your first problem, or maybe sign of ignorance that fire isn't the only good spec as a mage.

Second of all switching hunter to mage is like hopping from one fotm to another fotm, it doesn't work out well.

Number three sims SHOW arcane mages at the top because it's a patchwerk fight, at the start of the tier because of all the other classes getting buffed, mages are going to be middle of the pack most likely. Arcane due to movement and fire due to the nerf.

I wouldn't switch over to mages because your choices are a nerfed fire or a spec that sucks at movement with stupid amounts of movement next tier (not too bad on normals, but heroics certain fights are really bad). RoP being buffed will help, same with ice floes but some fights it's going to be really bad.

Yeah, Fire will be fine. We all expected a nerf. They don't seem to have over done it this time for once.

I told everyone when the nerf came out it'd be fine, the OUTROAR on twitter and the official forums was CRAZY, I've never seen so much bitching and entitlement out of any spec/class in my history of wow since BC. It was ridiculous, wasn't even that giant of a nerf and people were saying fire is no longer viable ever. Was overly dramatic and made me sick to my stomach lol.

I'm happy the community is accepting it now and isn't raging still.

[Kulestu]

Want to be reroll for FoTM in 5.4? Ret paladins are looking shockingly strong.

[mrgreenthump]

Want to be reroll for FoTM in 5.4? Ret paladins are looking shockingly strong.

We mages are praying that blizz wont look at arcane during PTR

[Deleted]

Want to be reroll for FoTM in 5.4? Ret paladins are looking shockingly strong.

melle is not an option.. they suck so hard on so many fights. And blizzard haven't changed that in 5.4

Also, i have so used to movement, that even arcane/frost is not an option.
Only fire mage or ANY hunter spec.
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vynestra - i really don't care about arcane.. i have seen them on logs as top dps - still, not interested. Mobility is all for me.
I am the one in my raidgroup that kick turtles, kite adds etc.. not becouse others can't do that, but because i enjoy that - i love more than 1 tactic: "don't stand in fire".

And as i said, i have mage as alt for very very long time, have done ui/auras.. its not like hopping to completely new class, more like switching specs.

Fotm or not.. but why stick with 9-11, when you can roll 1-4.
If you call hunters fotm(pve), u have no idea how bad we are on live.

If game would stay as it is, i wouldn't ask - right now hunters are garbage compared to fire mages..
I am more interested, how hard combustion nerf will hit - if it is only 10% damage, it is nothing.
But buffed hunters got buff as well (4-5%), i m wondering a lot.
14-15% is much.
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Thanks for answers, you help me a lot guys!

[Kulestu]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hunters go live and do significant damage. The nerfs hit hard, but they're buffing them a lot, and hunters are already very strong. Hunters are just a class that consistently complain about everything, I mained one for a long time.

Hunters aren't even close to garbage on live. Second best single target ranged damage after fire, best AoE damage by far. Hunters are below Mages, Warlocks (on multi-target fights) and potentially Rogues.

[Kenbud]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hunters go live and do significant damage. The nerfs hit hard, but they're buffing them a lot, and hunters are already very strong. Hunters are just a class that consistently complain about everything, I mained one for a long time.

Hunters aren't even close to garbage on live. Second best single target ranged damage after fire, best AoE damage by far. Hunters are below Mages, Warlocks (on multi-target fights) and potentially Rogues.

Hunters suffer from the same issue as frost mages, they are balanced around pvp. Hunters are insane in arena and have been this entire expansion and any small buff that is made to compensate their sub par pve damage is risking completely breaking them in pvp. So I do not believe they will be on the same lvl as other pures. I could be wrong though because rogues are already silly in pvp and very strong in pve and they got a pretty substantial buff.

[Deleted]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hunters go live and do significant damage. The nerfs hit hard, but they're buffing them a lot, and hunters are already very strong. Hunters are just a class that consistently complain about everything, I mained one for a long time.

Hunters aren't even close to garbage on live. Second best single target ranged damage after fire, best AoE damage by far. Hunters are below Mages, Warlocks (on multi-target fights) and potentially Rogues.

maybe in your rg.... which does not mean anything.
show logs or any other source or i ll keep ignoring your post.

there are hundreds of posts withnumbers and analysis that you are so wrong - check wow us ptr forums.
you can even check raidbots and analyze numbers yourself if that suits you better.

single target in hc content hunters are 5-7% behind other pures - bm.. survival is not even close.
multidot fights up to 45% behind locks, spriests, boomkins.
aoe we are not even close to best spec.. any lock or melle destroy us there.

only fights we are fine - iron qon, lei shen, ra-den.. and even there other pures dominate.

please give us logs or any other proof.
otherwise your opinion has 0 weight in my eyes - ONLY pve wise.

and i know how well hunters do in pvp, coupled with disco and retri..
but i'm not interested in pvp - talking about raiding!

[fearist]

Mages still on top, or atleast BLUGATTI STILL ON TOP BB.

[Polarthief]

Yes, you are right - we are not top 10.. not even close: only 4/12 ToT.
But i always min max, even switch races/professions if it improves my dps for 1-2% - somehow i enjoy doing my best even if we are not top going for realm first.

Not trying to be rude by any means, so please don't take this the wrong way, but if you're a min-maxer and only 4/12 (Assuming Normal because you didn't say 4/13), then you're doing something incredibly wrong, or you're too attached to your current guild.

I'm not saying you should drop them or anything, but you shouldn't worry about min-maxing if after an entire tier, you've only done 33% of the Normals.



PS: I feel like someone's about to type "IF YOU READ THE REST OF THE POSTS, YOU'D KNOW HE MEANT HEROICS!", so this is a disclaimer saying that I DID NOT read past the quote above, sorry If he meant Heroics, then nvm, he's doing fine, but if he's still stuck in early Normals this late in 5.3, then min-maxing isn't going to do anything for him.



OT: Stick with Hunter if you enjoy it. There's a lot less to enjoy about Mage.

[Beoren]

Since is started to play (late WOTLK) Mage/Rogue classes were the best dps in the game, every tier you will see a mage spec topping meters. Hunter? - middle of the pack.

[Kulestu]

maybe in your rg.... which does not mean anything.
show logs or any other source or i ll keep ignoring your post.

there are hundreds of posts withnumbers and analysis that you are so wrong - check wow us ptr forums.
you can even check raidbots and analyze numbers yourself if that suits you better.

single target in hc content hunters are 5-7% behind other pures - bm.. survival is not even close.
multidot fights up to 45% behind locks, spriests, boomkins.
aoe we are not even close to best spec.. any lock or melle destroy us there.

only fights we are fine - iron qon, lei shen, ra-den.. and even there other pures dominate.

please give us logs or any other proof.
otherwise your opinion has 0 weight in my eyes - ONLY pve wise.

and i know how well hunters do in pvp, coupled with disco and retri..
but i'm not interested in pvp - talking about raiding!

Hunters are behind pures like mages and warlocks because they can pad meters, raidbots and wold of logs tracks the highest damage being put out. Hunters don't have a great way to pad meters. Multidot fights? You mean like Tortos? Where Hunters are top? Most fight are dominated by people padding meters, or tanks. Go to any of the actual logs for 13/13 guilds and look at the hunters.

My last three guilds have all been 13/13 and in all three guilds, the hunters are doing incredible damage on a lot of fights. Sure, mages, warlocks and rogues can beat them, but not by much at all and on a lot of fights the hunters pull ahead.

[Kenbud]

Hunters are behind pures like mages and warlocks because they can pad meters, raidbots and wold of logs tracks the highest damage being put out. Hunters don't have a great way to pad meters. Multidot fights? You mean like Tortos? Where Hunters are top? Most fight are dominated by people padding meters, or tanks. Go to any of the actual logs for 13/13 guilds and look at the hunters.

My last three guilds have all been 13/13 and in all three guilds, the hunters are doing incredible damage on a lot of fights. Sure, mages, warlocks and rogues can beat them, but not by much at all and on a lot of fights the hunters pull ahead.

I agree that hunters are not in as bad of a place as some say but they are behind all the pures in single target by 5-10% and even on Tortos, which is the only fight of its kind, they are behind DKs and even with locks. Also you have guild hopped to 3 13/13 guilds? i find that statement very interesting.

[Kulestu]

My raid times changed for one, the raid lead was an ass for the second, and I like my current.