[WW] RJW damage buff [Build 17345]

[Totaltotemic]

33% buff to RJW now puts it at 80% of SCK per second. Not sure by the tooltip if this means a healing increase for MW too, but probably not.

So, assuming this isn't a datamining error or tooltip fix, what does this mean?


For one, RJW vs Xuen is now a much more simple discussion. If you can cleave, RJW wins, almost exclusively. Although I can't see why they'd do this intentionally, dumbs down the talent choice a lot, unless....


I believe the RJW buff is a change to offset the SEF nerf, implying that they do actually want us to have 5.0 Combat Rogue levels of cleave. This opens the door for a WW niche that up until now wasn't sure to actually be open: massive cleave. Triple SEF plus RJW does more damage in this build (assuming this datamining is accurate) than even in previous builds, which is to say, it's damn ridiculous. I think this finally puts WW in a spot where we can justify our raid spot even with limited single target DPS due to the massive amount of adds to AoE and cleavable bosses in SoO.





Also as a fun little side note, this would mean that the SEF nerf was in fact to keep it out of the single target rotation, which I find to be hilarious that nerfing it was the only way to fix that particular issue. Oh Blizzard...

[allaiva]

...Also as a fun little side note, this would mean that the SEF nerf was in fact to keep it out of the single target rotation, which I find to be hilarious that nerfing it was the only way to fix that particular issue. Oh Blizzard...

Unless something changed to SEF that I'm not aware of, it will never be a single target dps increase >.>

Original description mentioned that if was on your target the clone would no longer mimic special attacks but still reduce your damage down to x%.

[Deleted]

Unless something changed to SEF that I'm not aware of, it will never be a single target dps increase >.>

Original description mentioned that if was on your target the clone would no longer mimic special attacks but still reduce your damage down to x%.

It was buffed, which resulted in it being an increase to weave into the rotation with FoF (I think?). So if they nerfed that, bringing RJW up solidifies it's place as a cleave spell and also sorta balances out the SE&F nerf in cleave situations.

[Totaltotemic]

It was buffed, which resulted in it being an increase to weave into the rotation with FoF (I think?). So if they nerfed that, bringing RJW up solidifies it's place as a cleave spell and also sorta balances out the SE&F nerf in cleave situations.

It was FoF (and Chi Wave, and auto attacks, and RJW even on single target, was quite silly when you got into it, the tooltip is worthless).

As for actual math on what it does to AoE with Spirits, SEF went from 150/180% total damage to 140/165%, however a 33% buff to RJW would make it 186.66%/220%, or a 24.44%/22.22% buff to the case of AoE damage with SEF and RJW over the PTR build before the SEF nerf. Pretty silly since I was doing 200k DPS on Fallen Protectors in 510 scaled gear during Flex testing in that time frame, and that was already head and shoulders above everyone else.

[Callimonk]

It was FoF (and Chi Wave, and auto attacks, and RJW even on single target, was quite silly when you got into it, the tooltip is worthless).

As for actual math on what it does to AoE with Spirits, SEF went from 150/180% total damage to 140/165%, however a 33% buff to RJW would make it 186.66%/220%, or a 24.44%/22.22% buff to the case of AoE damage with SEF and RJW over the PTR build before the SEF nerf. Pretty silly since I was doing 200k DPS on Fallen Protectors in 510 scaled gear during Flex testing in that time frame, and that was already head and shoulders above everyone else.

And here my guild was saying that only Warriors, Warlocks, and Shamans can AE. Clearly they aren't paying attention to the fact that their Windwalker is nearly beating their Prot Warrior tank (granted, they judged off of 30s attempts... we aren't THAT bursty yet).

[Totaltotemic]

And here my guild was saying that only Warriors, Warlocks, and Shamans can AE. Clearly they aren't paying attention to the fact that their Windwalker is nearly beating their Prot Warrior tank (granted, they judged off of 30s attempts... we aren't THAT bursty yet).

On one of those AoE packs on the way to Norushen in Flex testing I did 800k dps with RJW and 2 spirits even before the buff...

They're silly, SCK has always been the best AoE in the game and RJW only makes it better by taking away the energy limitation.

[Callimonk]

On one of those AoE packs on the way to Norushen in Flex testing I did 800k dps with RJW and 2 spirits even before the buff...

They're silly, SCK has always been the best AoE in the game and RJW only makes it better by taking away the energy limitation.

Oh, I fully agree - before it was buffed, I could easily pull about that much with spirits up, etc. I have a video I posted to twitter - albeit of terrible quality (fricken YouTube) in which just having spirits up + RJW and I was easily 100K above the next DPS. The only person beating me, I believe, was a DK tank.

Perhaps I am only sour about that comment.

[Saltycracker]

I think the SEF damage change was unrelated to the FOF cleaving that people were experimenting with.

Clones aren't using FOF if they are targeting your target anymore afaik

[Totaltotemic]

Clones aren't using FOF if they are targeting your target anymore afaik

Good catch, I just went to test this myself.


If your Fists of Fury hits a target that any of your spirits are on, the spirits will do the Fists of Fury channel but will NOT auto attack or do damage (yes, this is even if 2 spirits are out and your Fists of Fury hits only one spirit's target, the 2nd spirit will not do damage with Fists of Fury and not do AAs). If your Fists of Fury does not contact a spirit target, they will Fists of Fury as normal.

While I'm glad they completely outruled the case of SEF FoF abuse, I'm disappointed that they introduced even more buggy protocols into the SEF AI when it's already extremely stupid. Alas, it's good to know, although I'm surprised there wasn't a blue post or a tweet about it because this completely changes the way you would use SEF on a target that is being tanked on top of your current target (i.e. you can't use FoF at all in that case).

[Azelias]

So.. they want us to not use a cleave ability in a clumped cleaving scenario (like Qon)? Well done Blizz, well done.

[shadowfyre27]

Has anyone tweeted or posted asking if this was an intentional change? It could be (hopefully) a bug and they just haven't hotfixed/patched it yet.

[Totaltotemic]

Has anyone tweeted or posted asking if this was an intentional change? It could be (hopefully) a bug and they just haven't hotfixed/patched it yet.

I think I'll compile a list of issues with the way SEF works and then maybe make a twitter account just to tweet a link of it to GC and post it on the forums.

Edit: Turns out I haven't the faintest idea how to grab just one tweet to link, so here is my profile with the single, solitary tweet awaiting an answer, as well as a link to the forum post.

[Justwait]

I think I'll compile a list of issues with the way SEF works and then maybe make a twitter account just to tweet a link of it to GC and post it on the forums.

Edit: Turns out I haven't the faintest idea how to grab just one tweet to link, so here is my profile with the single, solitary tweet awaiting an answer, as well as a link to the forum post.

on your list, number 4 has some incorrect listings.

4) Sources of damage that are not Monk-specific abilities (Meta gem proc, Flurry of Xuen effect, Multistrike trinket effect) are not replicated by the spirit but are still reduced by the correct percentage of damage.

Quite easy to test for anyone, but the Meta gem proc and flurry of Xuen do not get reduced.

[Totaltotemic]

on your list, number 4 has some incorrect listings.



Quite easy to test for anyone, but the Meta gem proc and flurry of Xuen do not get reduced.

It was yesterday, took off trinkets so as not to have random procs, damae was approx 30% lower with a spirit out than without one out. It's possible there's an inconsistency with the way the spell works.

[Justwait]

Well I just logged in to see if anything changed, but I still get the consistently the same damage values with and without SEF up.

[Totaltotemic]

I'll test again when I get home. Either way it's annoying that the spirit doesn't copy all damage, wold much rather it be like Havoc and copy abilities on a CD than be some weird persistent unit that has a huge list of rules for how it does and does not work.

[Crevan]

I think I'll compile a list of issues with the way SEF works and then maybe make a twitter account just to tweet a link of it to GC and post it on the forums.

Edit: Turns out I haven't the faintest idea how to grab just one tweet to link, so here is my profile with the single, solitary tweet awaiting an answer, as well as a link to the forum post.

The spirits get their own Tiger Power buff when they copy a Tiger Palm, so your point number 5 is incorrect.

[Totaltotemic]

As promised, testing again on PTR now.

For one, the meta gem is not reduced but Flurry of Xuen definitely is. I'm going to do testing with all of the new trinkets to see if their Multistrike/Cleave/amp is actually working with the spirits. Edit: SURPRISE, none of them do! Even the critical damage amplification is not applying on the spirit. I swear at this rate we'll figure out that the "buffed" SEF is actually a nerf once you start subtracting trinket procs, FoF craziness, and cloak proc.

Secondly, Tiger Power does seem to be working now, must have been fixed sometime in the last build or two.

I'm editing the post as I go along but I'd be very careful with spouting out that something is working as intended unless you actually test it yourself on the PTR.

[Justwait]

For one, the meta gem is not reduced but Flurry of Xuen definitely is.

How are you testing?

Without SEF: http://i.imgur.com/cfhMO5p.jpg
With 1 SEF: http://i.imgur.com/iACW2zX.jpg

As you can see the damage range is not changing at all.

[Totaltotemic]

I must have been mixing up my test parameters with the trinket testing I was doing, that or I was accidently cleaving another target dummy and not realizing it or something. I don't know, this spell is giving me a headache.