Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    The technology for scaling up old content is "in place"

    "The technology for scaling up old content is mostly in place now, but the devs haven't come up with a good rewards scheme for scaled up old dungeons and raids yet."

    On the front page for source.


    Opinions on this? What type of a reward would you like to see? cosmetic? useful gear? vanity?

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Behind her rifle, in that tree you just passed.
    Posts
    4,845
    if Im going to run old crap and be forced to run it with a group cause it's scaled to end game levels, I want end game gear I can use and nothing less.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
    Night Elf Independence Movement

  3. #3
    Brewmaster Lazuli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Your Moms House
    Posts
    1,305
    Quote Originally Posted by moon blade View Post
    if im going to run old crap and be forced to run it with a group cause it's scaled to end game levels, i want end game gear i can use and nothing less.
    qft!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.

    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    if Im going to run old crap and be forced to run it with a group cause it's scaled to end game levels, I want end game gear I can use and nothing less.

    I would abhor it. I hate that everyone wants every new feature to award gear to upgrade older gear. We have enough ways to obtain superior gear. LFR, Heroic Scenarios, etc.



    And personally, I'd go with cosmetic items, unused colorations of tier sets, NPC weapons (Akama's scythes, Maiev's weapon, glaives) unused weapon models (missing Ulduar weapons) and exclusive mounts/pets.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    if Im going to run old crap and be forced to run it with a group cause it's scaled to end game levels, I want end game gear I can use and nothing less.
    It's not going to be gear. At least not gear that rivals current progression in terms of stats.

    I can see it being like challenge modes, honestly. Transmog gear and titles for it being completed in 'x' time.

  6. #6
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Behind her rifle, in that tree you just passed.
    Posts
    4,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozles View Post
    It's not going to be gear. At least not gear that rivals current progression in terms of stats.

    I can see it being like challenge modes, honestly. Transmog gear and titles for it being completed in 'x' time.
    Challenge modes are fine but they are falling short of the mark. Timed runs just aren't that great, for some content they are, others should award flawless execution. I don't understand why that standard only existed in Wrath, it was the best benchmark for skill.

    I would abhor it. I hate that everyone wants every new feature to award gear to upgrade older gear. We have enough ways to obtain superior gear. LFR, Heroic Scenarios, etc.
    All the same I hate how everyone wants to take stuff people solo for gear, gold, mounts and wants to scale it up to a bloody end game dungeon just to stroke their epeen about running "heroic BRD" with their besties.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
    Night Elf Independence Movement

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I would abhor it. I hate that everyone wants every new feature to award gear to upgrade older gear. We have enough ways to obtain superior gear. LFR, Heroic Scenarios, etc.



    And personally, I'd go with cosmetic items, unused colorations of tier sets, NPC weapons (Akama's scythes, Maiev's weapon, glaives) unused weapon models (missing Ulduar weapons) and exclusive mounts/pets.
    The problem with raids is that you have to motivate 10-25 people into doing them. It won't be easy to find a group for the scaled old raids if they don't drop anything useful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    All the same I hate how everyone wants to take stuff people solo for gear, gold, mounts and wants to scale it up to a bloody end game dungeon just to stroke their epeen about running "heroic BRD" with their besties.
    If it's any consolation, Blizzard has already stated that if they were to scale old raids, it would be optional.

  8. #8
    Warchief Rizendragon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,188
    Quote Originally Posted by Wokopoly View Post
    "The technology for scaling up old content is mostly in place now, but the devs haven't come up with a good rewards scheme for scaled up old dungeons and raids yet."

    On the front page for source.


    Opinions on this? What type of a reward would you like to see? cosmetic? useful gear? vanity?
    Tinfoil Hat/hopeful me: It's in place because the ilvl squish is coming and soloing won't be faceroll anymore.

    realistic me: it's to provide a small challenge to those that would like to do some of this stuff with friends rather than be mister lonely pants who has no friends.
    Originally Posted by Bashiok
    The dishonest are want to identify dishonesty, even where it doesn't exist.

  9. #9
    The best way to "scale up old raids"; is to apply the "Flex Feature" to them, whilst having them to also be scaled at different Itemlvl Breakpoints, the average of the raid.

    Saying AQ20, the itemlvl is 70 or something like that, Then you could have the Lower Itemlvl Breakpoint to be 55 Itemlvl, then slowly increase it.

    55 -> 85 -> 120 -> 180 -> 240 -> 300 -> 350 -> 390 -> 440 -> 490 -> 510 -> 530 -> 555 -> 600 -> 650 etc etc.

    Have it to scale like Flex, whilst having something like these Itemlvl Breakpoints.


    Have them to award achievements, FoS Items, Unique Tmog Items - Anything but items which will have you forced to do this.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Togarox View Post
    The problem with raids is that you have to motivate 10-25 people into doing them. It won't be easy to find a group for the scaled old raids if they don't drop anything useful.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If it's any consolation, Blizzard has already stated that if they were to scale old raids, it would be optional.

    Yes. But it's just a supreme waste to create yet another new feature, just to get the same raiding gear you can get from say.. Siege of Orgrimmar, when it has the potential to drop transmog gear, exclusive mounts, exclusive pets, exclusive glyphs, exclusive vanity items -- again, exclusive NPC items that weren't obtainable before (like warglaives, Teron Gorefiend's polearm, Maiev's blade, Akama's scythes), weapon and armor models that are unused currently, colors of tier sets that weren't obtainable before (like blue warrior T10) and other stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    586
    These rewards should be purely cosmetic.

    Ideas:
    Transmog Gear
    Unique Glyphs unattainable by Scribes.
    ex) Your soothing mist and renewing mist have a blue hue to them.
    Your Lightning Bolt has the appearence of a wind serpent. (such as the ones in the barrens or outlands) A faint wind serpent though, transparent if you will, and it would have a gliding effect when traveling.
    Achievements. Obviously
    Timed Runs
    Dungeon specific mounts
    Ex) MC: Corehound
    BWL: Drake of Nefarian (similarly to Onyxian Drake)
    AQ20: One of the insects, not specifically like the bug mounts from AQ40. Could be ground or wasp, but that would be awks
    AQ40: Purple Qiraji Resonating Crystal
    Mags: Hellboar
    Gruul: idk
    TK: unecessary
    Kara: unecessary
    Sunwell: Drake of Kalecgos (refer to Onyxian Drake)
    SSC: Swift Sporebat
    Naxx: could be anything, wouldn't mind a sapphiron mount
    Uld: Miniature Flame Leviathan (refer to beginning of Mimiron fight)
    ToC: A different champion mount, so those who attained the mounts via heroic ToC when it was current still feel like a special snowflake (serious here).
    ICC: unecessary

    I got way to into this, I am done hahaha.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Narshe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Caves of Narshe
    Posts
    1,030
    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Blade View Post
    Challenge modes are fine but they are falling short of the mark. Timed runs just aren't that great, for some content they are, others should award flawless execution. I don't understand why that standard only existed in Wrath, it was the best benchmark for skill.

    All the same I hate how everyone wants to take stuff people solo for gear, gold, mounts and wants to scale it up to a bloody end game dungeon just to stroke their epeen about running "heroic BRD" with their besties.
    They have said, over and over and over, that they would make the option to run it at the old level so you can solo it, or at a max level for the scaling. I don't understand whats so hard to understand about this. People say the same crap about the item squish, "We won't be able to solo old content!" when in fact they will let you.

    People even do this everytime they revamp an old dungeon to make it a heroic, it just boggles my mind.

    On topic, they can easily use the personal loot system with scaled raids, make it so you can roll on any boss in any raid for a chance at shared loot tables.

    http://joekey.deviantart.com Sig by Lilliputia! <3

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Artemol View Post
    The best way to "scale up old raids"; is to apply the "Flex Feature" to them, whilst having them to also be scaled at different Itemlvl Breakpoints, the average of the raid.

    Saying AQ20, the itemlvl is 70 or something like that, Then you could have the Lower Itemlvl Breakpoint to be 55 Itemlvl, then slowly increase it.

    55 -> 85 -> 120 -> 180 -> 240 -> 300 -> 350 -> 390 -> 440 -> 490 -> 510 -> 530 -> 555 -> 600 -> 650 etc etc.

    Have it to scale like Flex, whilst having something like these Itemlvl Breakpoints.


    Have them to award achievements, FoS Items, Unique Tmog Items - Anything but items which will have you forced to do this.
    Wouldn't it be easier just use the challenge mode method of scaling everything to a specific ilvl?

  14. #14
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Behind her rifle, in that tree you just passed.
    Posts
    4,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Narshe View Post
    They have said, over and over and over, that they would make the option to run it at the old level so you can solo it, or at a max level for the scaling. I don't understand whats so hard to understand about this. People say the same crap about the item squish, "We won't be able to solo old content!" when in fact they will let you.
    they haven't implemented anything yet, and have no plans to. All of this is speculation, and with speculation comes the possibility of a permanent overhaul, like we saw in ZG/ZA (or did you miss THAT?).

    People even do this everytime they revamp an old dungeon to make it a heroic, it just boggles my mind.
    How you ignore the fact that two raids (more ZG than ZA) which were easily and readily solo'd for gear and mounts were removed and brought back as 5 man heroics has already happened so being concerned about it happening elsewhere isn't exactly baseless. I farmed ZG nearly a year for the Zulian Tiger and never got it, then they took it out, made it a 5 man heroic, and put a boring replacement in -.-
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
    Night Elf Independence Movement

  15. #15
    OK... No one noticed it was coming to supply a at least ONE SINGLE DEMAND?

    It's for CHALLENGE MODES. Blizzard can't just abandon the old dungeons and demand players to chose between to level the character in the next expansion or holding back, so they can finish the leftovers for the achievement.

  16. #16
    Make them 10 player. Make them drop the same gear as they did back then(art wise ofc). And make that gear a couple of ilvls worse than the raiding tier,but a couple of ilvls better than the dungeon tier. So that way if you want to gear up for normal raids you can either do the dungeons(eaiser) slightly worse gear or the old raids(harder, slightly better gear).
    Cosmetic only won't justify getting 10 people to do them especially if you can get the transmog by soloing it.And adding EXCLUSIVE new cosmetic items just for those old tiers is probably not going to happen.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Narshe View Post
    They have said, over and over and over, that they would make the option to run it at the old level so you can solo it, or at a max level for the scaling. I don't understand whats so hard to understand about this. People say the same crap about the item squish, "We won't be able to solo old content!" when in fact they will let you.

    People even do this everytime they revamp an old dungeon to make it a heroic, it just boggles my mind.

    On topic, they can easily use the personal loot system with scaled raids, make it so you can roll on any boss in any raid for a chance at shared loot tables.

    To be fair. Every time, so far, they have given a raid or dungeon a make-over, they removed the original version. (Scarlet Monastery, Scholomance, Zul'gurub, Zul'aman, etc.)


    They need to stop doing that.



    For real.
    Quote Originally Posted by leaks View Post
    Well it's good to see the keyboard activists in full effect. Doing the laziest, most asinine thing they could think of off the top of their heads and calling it justice while making no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by C9H20
    Blizzard effectively wants to have its cake and eat it too by pretending to have this groundbreaking war in a faction capital while at the same time being completely unwilling to portray logical consequences of such an event.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Buu View Post
    OK... No one noticed it was coming to supply a at least ONE SINGLE DEMAND?

    It's for CHALLENGE MODES. Blizzard can't just abandon the old dungeons and demand players to chose between to level the character in the next expansion or holding back, so they can finish the leftovers for the achievement.
    Actually someone has already mentioned that... see below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Bamboozles View Post
    It's not going to be gear. At least not gear that rivals current progression in terms of stats.

    I can see it being like challenge modes, honestly. Transmog gear and titles for it being completed in 'x' time.



    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    To be fair. Every time, so far, they have given a raid or dungeon a make-over, they removed the original version. (Scarlet Monastery, Scholomance, Zul'gurub, Zul'aman, etc.)



    They need to stop doing that.



    For real.
    I agree, every time I see someone saying that they should give Kara the same treatment, I cringe inside. I don't want them to remove my favorite raid for a modified version that I may not enjoy

  19. #19
    /cracks knuckles

    OK - taking a page from Wrath LFD, this is how I would make a system work. (Though I HATE throwing out the idea, because Blizz should be the one doing the work - not their customers! >_<)

    Now, having said that:

    In my opinion, what made Wrath LFD so successful where Cata failed miserably (and possibly hitting MoP) was in two ways:

    1) Having a VAST variety of dungeons to play in at max level
    2) Having lots of SELLABLE/TRADABLE stuff (not just upgrades to your gear) you can get from dungeons and items you could buy with your badges (justice points).

    Having LOTS of dungeons available prevents rapid dungeon delving burnout (ie. The 3 Hour of Twilight dungeons as an example). Having lots of stuff you can sell/trade/utilize otherwise when running dungeons is the key to making people want to revisit them. (ie. Wrath dungeons getting epic shards, Wintergrasp shards, badges, mineable/herbable/deconstructable mobs, BoE sellable blue gear, Blue recipes/books to sell, Frozen Orbs that could be traded for even MORE stuff. Badges could be used to buy gear, BoE gear, Heirlooms, Pets, Tabards, mounts, rep return badges, Raiding crafting orbs, ect…)

    The idea is this: You should run old content and say "That was a fun run! Now lets see what goodies I got this time in my bags!" when you finished it. You should NOT say "God damnit, that stupid Ring didn't drop AGAIN!"

    To that effect, I'd put this into play:

    1) Updated content at a specific level has their own "Point" system. (ie. Justice/Valor/OldContentPointName)

    2) EVERY boss drops a set number of points as an award.

    3) Have a pool of rare/epic max-level BIND ON EQUIP items that drop from all older content bosses - as in, there's no dungeon/boss-specific gear. The BoE instead of BoP is important, as I will explain later.

    4) Have at least one UNIQUE toy/trinket/trick/pet/tabard/ect a player can have drop from each dungeon.

    5) MATERIALS!!! Have lots crafting items in addition to gold drop (Variety of max level dungeon/raid orbs, ores, herbs, ect - possibly even previous expansion rare schematics and what-not drop off bosses. Again, all BoE.

    6) The Old Content Points would be used for all KINDS of fun rewards from a specific vendor. Mounts, Pets, Tabards, ect… LOTS of BoE items and rare crafting materials (Raiding orbs even) should be there… perhaps even some fun toys/ect and heirlooms. The list of item is endless. If most of the stuff is BoE, then the dungeons running motivation will be bonus loot that's forever useful/sellable/tradable.

    7) Old Content Points should be obtained at their respective expansion max-levels and have specific vendors per expansion (ie. Level 90 = Mystical Old Content Points, Level 95 = Waterlogged Old Content points, Level 100 = Fel-infused Old Content Points, ect...).

    ...and, yes, there can be a couple gear stat upgrades to buy too for those silly min/maxers with limited gaming imagination/scope who can't see anything beyond attribute statistical growth. :P

    In short, the "updated dungeons" should become a fun gameplay alternative to farming max-level items/materials/gold/AH fodder/toys, and NOT about upgrading your gear. If it's just stat-upgrade gear that drops, there's no point in playing it anymore. The idea is to keep it perpetually/repeatable... And I mean that, as in being able to perpetually use points/sell stuff over and over again. As something you jump into for an hour or so, and come out with a fun dungeon experience and some bonus stuff to sell on the AH.

    Also, by NOT having specific BoP gear dropping in specific dungeons - you allow players to feel that every dungeon is equal (save for design/duration) in what they can obtain - and thus are motivated to stay and finish it - thus the pool of well-geared gamers will remain consistent for ALL dungeons. (example: Everybody ONLY ran Hour of Twilight dungeons while ignoring older dungeons in Cata, which pulled out well-geared players from the pool... and thus reinstated the awful gear-block)
    Last edited by mvallas; 2013-09-03 at 03:45 PM.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Behind her rifle, in that tree you just passed.
    Posts
    4,845
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    To be fair. Every time, so far, they have given a raid or dungeon a make-over, they removed the original version. (Scarlet Monastery, Scholomance, Zul'gurub, Zul'aman, etc.)
    They need to stop doing that.
    For real.
    Exactly. It's just an aggravation. I also don't even know why Scholomance and the Scarlet Monastery needed a revamp period, wth did those places have to do with MoP's storyline. As far as content I'd sacrifice for revamped Silvermoon and phased Ashenvale, pointless classic dungeon re-dos are near the top of the list.
    If it's not an elf, leave it on the shelf.
    Night Elf Independence Movement

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •