Russia Sends Warships to the Coast of Syria

[Adam Jensen]

US real plan is to make NEW world order and the coming of the antichrist thats what NWO is for and btw they dont give a damn about muslim

Yeah . . . about that . . . I made you this tinfoil hat so the chemtrails don't get into your brainwaves.

[chaotus]

It's posturing to maintain the resemblance of power. Russia will not actively fight the US. It's not in the US best interests to emasculate Russia though. If Russia can play it's cards right then they can stall long enough to make the situation irrelevant.

Has anybody thought that this could all be a big excuse to nix the G20 in a way that saves face both for the US and Russia. Play out all these tensions, then act like they wanted to reach an agreement but couldn't because of the tensions? Just a side thought.

[Shaqur]

It's a good move because as of this moment USA is playing world police and sticking its nose where it is not supposed to be.
Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkamZg68jpk
USA mindset is only set to make money, they don't give a shit about human lives.
UN did not agree for war and USA is going for it, also they are siding with aggressors that used chemical weapon.
USA has papers but not evidence, while Russia has evidence and showed them and all the evidence points to rebels.

[Kellhound]

So they're fixing deficiencies in their military and this is laughable?

Also they're spending something like $640 billion on military upgrades over 10 years. I don't, however, feel that comparing that dollar amount is fair due to the fact that American military buys from American companies (usually) and Russian military buys from Russians. Thus, in a land where the expenditure of $1 would get you something that would cost $3 over here, they're spending closer to $2 trillion.

For that, they're getting around 600 new planes, 1000 helicopters, 15 frigates, 3 dozen corvettes, overhauling a naval base, and about 100 SAMs... not to mention the drones.

So yeah... they're not dicking around.

The naval vessels are tiny little sitting ducks compared to the DDG-51s the US Navy is buying though and the planes are a generation behind the US. Mil and Kamov make decent helicopters, but at best on par with Western ones. And that assumes they actual are able to procure them all, they have been having quality issues these days.

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The Russian ships in the area are for "show the flag" purposes only. They have minimal ability to evacuate people, that is a story used to explain why they are there. They have no intention in actually engaging the US Navy, as they know they lack the ASuW assets to take on 4+ Burke destroyers equipt with an AAW system designed specifically to take on a large scale high-speed SSM attack from SS-N-12/19/22 class weapons. Most of the ships Russia has in the area are ASW ships with minimal ASuW and AAW capability, and only the Moskva is larger than the US destroyers and it only has 16 ASuW missiles. Simple math shows the Russian have no chance to win and would just lose one of thier few capable surface vessels, they know it and we know it.

[Rukentuts]

Warships in a war-zone? I don't see what I'm supposed to get in a tizzy over.

[Deleted]

The Russian Navy is no match for the US Navy. The ships the USN currently has in the Med can easily destroy the entire Black Sea Fleet without likely suffering a single loss. The bulk of the Russian fleet is split between the Northern Fleet and the Pacific Fleet, far away from the Med.

it isnt quite as one sided as that but its an entirely moot point regardless.

im surprised no one has mentioned this yet but those ships are there (if they are there for any military reason) to act as human shields.
its a US cold war strategy, they had a thousand US troops trying to defend a point (in Germany, the logical invasion point to be precise) which could not be conventionally defended from the Russians, for the sole purpose of calming down things as the wisdom was that as soon as a single US marine, airman, or army was dead the nuclear exchange would begin, it is likely that is the entire point, the second a Russian sailor dies, or any ground forces if they go all out, the US knows that the Kremlin Will engage.

[Asphyxiate9]

I'm more shocked people think this will actually start a conflict... like seriously...

[Kellhound]

it isnt quite as one sided as that but its an entirely moot point regardless.

im surprised no one has mentioned this yet but those ships are there (if they are there for any military reason) to act as human shields.
its a US cold war strategy, they had a thousand US troops trying to defend a point (in Germany, the logical invasion point to be precise) which could not be conventionally defended from the Russians, for the sole purpose of calming down things as the wisdom was that as soon as a single US marine, airman, or army was dead the nuclear exchange would begin, it is likely that is the entire point, the second a Russian sailor dies, or any ground forces if they go all out, the US knows that the Kremlin Will engage.

The ships currently in the Med are no match for a squadron of US destroyers, not even close. The Moskva is the only Russian ship with any significant ASuW capability deployed in the region, the Russian Pac Flt unit that just arrived consists of one Udaloy I ASW destroyer, 2 LSTs, and auxilaries. And RUssia already had "human shields" in country as advisors. It would take a blatant overt hostile act by either party to cause a war, even during the Cold War the fleets were not beyond hitting each other with no war breaking out.

[Deleted]

The only reason why Russia is still brought up in conversations about "superpowers" is because the USSR wasn't that long ago and the have veto power at the UN. Everyone knows the real superpower of the world doesn't care about another countries veto powers

Yup. I don't think China really cares about Syria period though.

I really must give up this fitness lark and bring more popcorn.

[smelltheglove]

The ships currently in the Med are no match for a squadron of US destroyers, not even close. The Moskva is the only Russian ship with any significant ASuW capability deployed in the region, the Russian Pac Flt unit that just arrived consists of one Udaloy I ASW destroyer, 2 LSTs, and auxilaries. And RUssia already had "human shields" in country as advisors. It would take a blatant overt hostile act by either party to cause a war, even during the Cold War the fleets were not beyond hitting each other with no war breaking out.

while you are correct in that the russian ships are currently overmatched, he is right in that they are russian ships - the human shield thing is a very valid point. there is a difference between on the ground advisers that can be "collateral damage" and multi-million dollar warships (no idea how much russian warships cost, but multi-million is a safe bet). warships can also command airspace, which we either violate (which carries risks) or fly around, giving syrian forces preparation time (higher risk to planes in the event we are bombing or taking out AA capabilities). it's a move to nudge the risk factor of an operation from acceptable to unacceptable, and it's a tactic we have used before

[Themerlin]

WTF people, Russia isn't going to attack us over Syria, they aren't even our enemies anymore (though they aren't quite allies either.) If we survived the crisises of the Cold War without engaging each other, I'm pretty sure this stupid little conflict won't escalate either.

Pretty much this. I dont think the western world and Russia give 2 flying donuts what happens with the Ottoman part of the world, in fact the way things have been going for the past 60 years seems to point that we are playing with them like a cat would with a decapitated mouse`s corpse. Even Saudi Arabia condones these actions since their grudge with the Ottomans is still fresh in their minds.

I only want to add, that the US, England, and France seem to be playing dirty and manipulating both sides. The end justifies the means I suppose in their perspective.

Syria was a lost cause for Russia a while ago...now Iran is a different story.

[GoldNSilence]

China struck an extremely lucrative oil deal with Syria, now it's a financial interest. Putin is not Assad's buddy, he's enforcing international law and enjoying the fact that United States' leaders are making fools of themselves looking like bullies and warmongers. Putin stated that if the UN inspectors found definitive proof that Assad gassed his own people, he too would help remove Assad from power.

[Kellhound]

while you are correct in that the russian ships are currently overmatched, he is right in that they are russian ships - the human shield thing is a very valid point. there is a difference between on the ground advisers that can be "collateral damage" and multi-million dollar warships (no idea how much russian warships cost, but multi-million is a safe bet). warships can also command airspace, which we either violate (which carries risks) or fly around, giving syrian forces preparation time (higher risk to planes in the event we are bombing or taking out AA capabilities). it's a move to nudge the risk factor of an operation from acceptable to unacceptable, and it's a tactic we have used before

You can fly a full strike package right over the top of any warship in international water as a show of force, they do not command airspace like one does inside territorial waters. Any action by Russia against our planes or cruise missiles would be overt and intentionally hostile, and would not clear a "we thought they were attacking us" defense. And the total number of ships compared to the Syrian coast line is tiny. Ships are also easy to avoid in combat, don't strike the ports.

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China struck an extremely lucrative oil deal with Syria, now it's a financial interest. Putin is not Assad's buddy, he's enforcing international law and enjoying the fact that United States' leaders are making fools of themselves looking like bullies and warmongers. Putin stated that if the UN inspectors found definitive proof that Assad gassed his own people, he too would help remove Assad from power.

Russia's entire strategy of a permanent naval presence in the Med requires the port in Syria to work. Putin will take no action against Assad no matter what is found unless he thinks he can install a new leader that will still favor Russia. Then there are the arms deals between them to think of as well.

[smelltheglove]

You can fly a full strike package right over the top of any warship in international water as a show of force, they do not command airspace like one does inside territorial waters. Any action by Russia against our planes or cruise missiles would be overt and intentionally hostile, and would not clear a "we thought they were attacking us" defense. And the total number of ships compared to the Syrian coast line is tiny. Ships are also easy to avoid in combat, don't strike the ports.

we dont allow any aircraft within a certain range of our ships, and i doubt russia does either. it would be a pointless risk. they really arent after war, they just want to be a nuisance because they can be. if we are determined we will still strike, so they wont really stop us, just be annoying to show us they can be annoying

[Verain]

Russia isn't going to attack us, calm down.

Putin is a liar, but he doesn't lie about everything. Given how unstable that region is, they should definitely not just send "civilian ships". What if one of those factions attacked it or something? The last thing anyone needs is Russia getting into a shooting war in Syria. Screw that!

[Kellhound]

we dont allow any aircraft within a certain range of our ships, and i doubt russia does either. it would be a pointless risk. they really arent after war, they just want to be a nuisance because they can be. if we are determined we will still strike, so they wont really stop us, just be annoying to show us they can be annoying

We don't LIKE aircraft too close to our ships, but we both overfly each other all the time.

[Themerlin]

Russia isn't going to attack us, calm down.

Putin is a liar, but he doesn't lie about everything. Given how unstable that region is, they should definitely not just send "civilian ships". What if one of those factions attacked it or something? The last thing anyone needs is Russia getting into a shooting war in Syria. Screw that!

To tell you the truth I want to see the Russians fighting alongside with the US to put down whatever regime is in Syria (doesnt matter who it is).

Maybe that will occur in Stephenie Meyer`s next novel, with Putin all sparkly, and Obama with seductive animalistic eyes.

Close to being all sparkly

[smelltheglove]

We don't LIKE aircraft too close to our ships, but we both overfly each other all the time.

it's unlikely that we would allow it while said aircraft were engaged in combat. that is a huge risk

[Kellhound]

it's unlikely that we would allow it while said aircraft were engaged in combat. that is a huge risk

They would be at altitude sufficient to not be a concern, especially since any given ship has a very tiny zone of influence that would even warrant a consideration of maneuvering around. I am not saying we would fly over them, just that they present a negligable issue to s strike package, and then only if it was launched from the sea and not from Turkey. A cruise missile strike would just be programed to fly around them, given the range of the TLAM, it is a minor impact at best.

[smelltheglove]

They would be at altitude sufficient to not be a concern, especially since any given ship has a very tiny zone of influence that would even warrant a consideration of maneuvering around. I am not saying we would fly over them, just that they present a negligable issue to s strike package, and then only if it was launched from the sea and not from Turkey. A cruise missile strike would just be programed to fly around them, given the range of the TLAM, it is a minor impact at best.

and like i was saying, no, it wouldnt stop us, just them letting us know they can be annoying, and make themselves be noticed.