[5.4] Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[durrtygoodz]

http://pastebin.com/2rRXSA05 There's mine.

Thanks mate works a charm

[Hottie4Hire]

Anyone have any tips for doing heroic Garrosh as a WW? Generally and specific parts of the fight. I'm told we can solo one of the groups in the Jade Temple area - true? How? Any other advice for any other part of the fight would be welcome as well.

10 man.

[Vexilius]

Anyone have any tips for doing heroic Garrosh as a WW? Generally and specific parts of the fight. I'm told we can solo one of the groups in the Jade Temple area - true? How? Any other advice for any other part of the fight would be welcome as well.

10 or 25 man?

[Hottie4Hire]

10 sorry. Edited that in.

[Vexilius]

Never done it on 10 man, so I can't speak for specific strategy, however the key to the fight is controlling when he transitions. WW's are good for stunning the adds during his transition phases and you have a lot of personal CDs that line up with various raid damage things that happen during the fight. I was assigned as an add stunner/interrupter in the ph1 transition and one of the people that soaked Malice ticks during the Unstable Iron Star spawning in ph4. If that same stuff happens in 10 man, it's likely that you'll end up doing that too, I would look for a youtube video for those things.

People padding on this fight will wipe you, it can be very unforgiving.

[Babylonius]

As far as special WW strategies, you can try using Touch of Karma during the transitions to do some damage back, may require other CDs. I do H Garrosh as BrM, but in my opinion H Garrosh is one of the easiest fights for melee DPS, just stay with the boss and DPS him.

[Jocias]

Anyone have any tips for doing heroic Garrosh as a WW? Generally and specific parts of the fight. I'm told we can solo one of the groups in the Jade Temple area - true? How? Any other advice for any other part of the fight would be welcome as well.

10 man.

For Jade Temple (AKA the first transition), SEF is a great tool to spread your damage to all the adds. You can use either Leg Sweep or Ring of Peace. If you FoF in the middle of the pack of mobs and turn around, you will stun each mob at least once, which will stop their casting. Haven't done 10m. So, I don't know how much health they have. I know in 25m, I can keep them locked down for 8-9 seconds before we need an aoe interrupt or have people start doing single target interrupts.

[Dirtdogs]

Anyone have any tips for doing heroic Garrosh as a WW? Generally and specific parts of the fight. I'm told we can solo one of the groups in the Jade Temple area - true? How? Any other advice for any other part of the fight would be welcome as well.

10 man.

10 Heroic man can be daunting to solo an add pack but it is doable with SEF and good lockdown from Ring and FOF. You will need to save at least 10 Tigereye charges for it and if you really struggle could try to save 1 charge of Chi Brew to get off a quick 2 chi for a after you RSK and RP mobs.

For the parts of the fight outside of transition WW are pretty good on damage because they can easily keep full uptime on the boss when he is being moved and WW will generally shine on long duration fights conspired to really bursty classes on short duration.

You should really be going for as much single target on Garrosh as possible (this is more so comp reliant on 10 man) but you should have better burst AOE classes for phase 1 adds and other AOE in the fight. Classes like ret pally and destro locks are very good at short duration AOE and they can gain single target DPS from having adds up opposed to WW who gains nothing from cheesing adds on progression.

[Hottie4Hire]

10 Heroic man can be daunting to solo an add pack but it is doable with SEF and good lockdown from Ring and FOF. You will need to save at least 10 Tigereye charges for it and if you really struggle could try to save 1 charge of Chi Brew to get off a quick 2 chi for a after you RSK and RP mobs.

For the parts of the fight outside of transition WW are pretty good on damage because they can easily keep full uptime on the boss when he is being moved and WW will generally shine on long duration fights conspired to really bursty classes on short duration.

You should really be going for as much single target on Garrosh as possible (this is more so comp reliant on 10 man) but you should have better burst AOE classes for phase 1 adds and other AOE in the fight. Classes like ret pally and destro locks are very good at short duration AOE and they can gain single target DPS from having adds up opposed to WW who gains nothing from cheesing adds on progression.

I'm also a Blood Elf so I have access to arcane torrent. I believe it works, correct? That would give me a bit of extra time.

Is Ring vs. Leg Sweep just preference?

And could you elaborate on exactly how to approach the first transition then? I run up to the mobs, aggro them first, then cast my SEF, or can the adds aggro and that's ok? And is it better to aoe them or just single target?

[Babylonius]

I'm also a Blood Elf so I have access to arcane torrent. I believe it works, correct? That would give me a bit of extra time.

Is Ring vs. Leg Sweep just preference?

And could you elaborate on exactly how to approach the first transition then? I run up to the mobs, aggro them first, then cast my SEF, or can the adds aggro and that's ok? And is it better to aoe them or just single target?

Arcane torrent should work, I'm not a BE so I can't confirm it 100% But I believe people use it in our raids.

I believe Ring of Peace provides you with a longer silence if you pop it before their cast then it may silence two casts. Again, I haven't used it personally but I saw our MW use it and it seemed to work that way.

Run up to the mobs, click two of them and cast SEF, or use a mouse over macro, while approaching them and start going crazy on them. If you, for whatever reason, have RJW, then keep that up. Using SCK should do the most damage, but if your using that then make sure to add /stopcasting into a macro with your interrupt(s).

[britishbubba]

I'm also a Blood Elf so I have access to arcane torrent. I believe it works, correct? That would give me a bit of extra time.

Yes it works.

[Enpoli]

Try to make sure you hit all 3 mobs at the same time when you first engage them in the Jade Serpent transition. When they cast is timed off of when they "activate" so to speak by being attacked. If you cast SEF on two of them before hitting any of them, they will probably not be synced up and your AoE stuns won't be effective interrupting them all.

I run RJW mostly for the first transition and to help break mind controls. Single target damage is really important on Garrosh, so some people prefer Xuen.

[Gaje]

.... If you FoF in the middle of the pack of mobs and turn around, you will stun each mob at least once, which will stop their casting. Haven't done 10m. So, I don't know how much health they have. I know in 25m, I can keep them locked down for 8-9 seconds before we need an aoe interrupt or have people start doing single target interrupts.

If you FoF from one of the outside corners and face the middle of the pack you will hit and stun all 3 at once with the FoF cone.

[Callimonk]

RJW is good against 3+ targets for an extended time. That is, if all of that damage is effective damage. When you kill one of the bugs on Paragons, the remaining bugs regenerate their health to full. So, AoE on that fight rarely does effective damage since most of the damage that was done will be regenerated. Because of this, Paragons are all about single target damage

What the person on Paragons was doing is called padding. Basically, he's a bastard and a DPS whore who was doing that to rank on a fight. There are a couple times on Paragons where RJW actually does effective damage, but the times where it makes sense to use RJW are so few and far between that Xuen is a better choice on that fight. If you use RJW on fewer than 3 targets, it negatively effects your Chi generation, which in the long-term will have a negative impact on your damage. If you're just looking for a short burst of damage without regard to your long-term damage, RJW paired with TeB can do incredible single target burst, which is why RJW is often taken in PvP.

It's actually a very good discussion point as to when RJW is padding or not. It's something I've been looking into myself on logs - we sit here and we call it padding simply because they are higher on the meter and (some) of RJW's damage doesn't matter, but we seem to ignore the fact that A) Xuen also cleaves, B) RJW is still returning Chi, and C) the DoT aura is still hitting your main target.

I bolded your point on ST Burst - many Klaxxi logs DO require some ST burst. I know that my guild requires some burst onto Skeer. Monks really aren't that bursty, and I wouldn't even once refer to Xuen as burst. Plus, Klaxxi are often at least 3 targets, so you do generally get your Chi return from using RJW.

In short, I'd really call someone scumbagging on Klaxxi if they're also using SEF. Trust me... too many WW alts in my guild already do that. It annoys me.

[edit] Keep in mind I'm not arguing in favor of using RJW on Klaxxi. I'm just interested in other people's opinions, and I think it's a good discussion point. I'm personally looking at logs for boss damage of Xuen vs. RJW.

[Jocias]

It's actually a very good discussion point as to when RJW is padding or not. It's something I've been looking into myself on logs - we sit here and we call it padding simply because they are higher on the meter and (some) of RJW's damage doesn't matter, but we seem to ignore the fact that A) Xuen also cleaves, B) RJW is still returning Chi, and C) the DoT aura is still hitting your main target.

I bolded your point on ST Burst - many Klaxxi logs DO require some ST burst. I know that my guild requires some burst onto Skeer. Monks really aren't that bursty, and I wouldn't even once refer to Xuen as burst. Plus, Klaxxi are often at least 3 targets, so you do generally get your Chi return from using RJW.

In short, I'd really call someone scumbagging on Klaxxi if they're also using SEF. Trust me... too many WW alts in my guild already do that. It annoys me.

[edit] Keep in mind I'm not arguing in favor of using RJW on Klaxxi. I'm just interested in other people's opinions, and I think it's a good discussion point. I'm personally looking at logs for boss damage of Xuen vs. RJW.

That's a reasonable question. I don't think the RJW vs. Xuen thing has been put in this context before, but I still don't see a way in which RJW would be beneficial over the course of the entire fight. There's one situation that I'll get into later where an argument for RJW could be made, but it's a rather thin arguement.

On a fight like Paragons, you have to consider that to make RJW worth using for an entire fight, you'd have to use it in a way that it would generate Chi. That requires hitting 3 things. Everything except the kunchongs regenerates health on that fight. So, at best, 1/3 of the damage of RJW would be effective, outside of the Korven amber thing where 2/3 of it would be useful. So, to make RJW useful, we'd have to have all 3 bugs tanked together for a majority of the fight, and all or almost all of that damage would have to be effective to make what you're doing not scumbagging. The two goals there are at odds with each-other. On top of that, you don't just look at RJW vs. Xuen. It's RJW vs. lost chi from just jabbing which translates into lost BoKs and lost Combo Breaker Procs (both of which are a big loss of single target damage) + Xuen's damage. The fact that Xuen cleaves is kind of a bonus on most fights. On this one, it does add a bit of padding, but it also does the most effective single target damage over RJW the whole fight.

I can't see a good situation where RJW will beat out Xuen on a 10 minute fight that's almost entirely focused on single target damage. If anyone can find logs that shows RJW is an overall effective DPS increase against Xuen, I'd be surprised, but there's so little that's new or fun about WW these days that I'd love to be proven wrong. I suppose if your raid is bumping up against a second poison thing from Xaril, maybe the extra single target burst from RJW would be acceptable over Xuen, but even then, you wouldn't be using it except when Xaril was up unless your intent were to scumbag.

[Babylonius]

I see what Alysmera is saying in looking at RJW as burst. I've noticed it several times on Thok where the other WW uses RJW during BL and I use Xuen since it's the start of the fight. He will often jump ahead of me I DPS for the 30s or so of procs, TEB, and BL then I will out pace him the rest of the fight.

Xuen is certainly the better choice in single target throughout the whole course of the fight, but does it provide better burst if you need to kill something in 10s? 20s? There aren't any fights where that is super essential, but for the most part our answer to that scenario has been "other classes are better at burst so..."

[Totaltotemic]

I see what Alysmera is saying in looking at RJW as burst. I've noticed it several times on Thok where the other WW uses RJW during BL and I use Xuen since it's the start of the fight. He will often jump ahead of me I DPS for the 30s or so of procs, TEB, and BL then I will out pace him the rest of the fight.

Xuen is certainly the better choice in single target throughout the whole course of the fight, but does it provide better burst if you need to kill something in 10s? 20s? There aren't any fights where that is super essential, but for the most part our answer to that scenario has been "other classes are better at burst so..."

The cost of using RJW single target is TEB generation, which by its very nature won't be seen until later. If there was a Tendons-like thing in this entire expansion then maybe it would be something worth doing since damage outside of that part would be irrelevant, but that doesn't really exist anywhere in this expansion. Once the "burst" phase passes 20 seconds or so Xuen is up enough anyways so it stops mattering. Realistically though if you need that kind of help to deal with parts of Paragons, I don't understand how your raid would make the enrage timer at that point, it's not like they're super hard burst DPS checks or anything.

[Deleted]

Hey, I've got a few questions regarding Resource usage and 'how to use an ability every GCD':
Firstly, CB: TP
I've been looking through high ranked logs and the uptime on this buff seems to be rather high. I thought that you would use this proc before your next Jab - so to not waste a potential 2nd one - but then I've seen videos of people holding onto the buff, only using it to refresh Tiger Power.

Does the line in the SimC APL 'tiger_palm,if=buff.combo_breaker_tp.react&(buff.combo_breaker_tp.remains<=2|energy.time_t o_max>=2)' mean that you only use it when the proc has equal/less than 2 secs left, or, Energy is above/equal to 2 secs from capping?
If one of the conditions is 'your energy is over 2 secs from capping' can this then be used at low energy to fill a GCD?

Chi Wave
From looking at SimC, this has a really high DPET (just below RSK for me if I'm not above ~14k haste). Up until now I've thought it best to hit this on CD (so long as I don't cap energy) because of how much damage it does, and give it very high priority when prods and TEB are up. However - in things I've watched - I've seen people hold onto it, sometimes for a remarkably long time, and use it at low energy to fill a GCD.

What's the correct thing to do?

Lastly, Energizing Brew
My gut instinct when thinking about this ability is that it's a CD and I want to get the most use out of it as possible during an encounter. I've read about the nuances of using it, like holding it for AoE to keep energy flowing, but apart from specific things like that, I imagine you'd want it on CD. But again, I've looked at logs and I've seen people not doing that! Is this another 'use when low energy to fill GCD's (from spending the energy)' thing? Would it be right to try and be at low energy when it comes off CD so that it can be used straight away?

Hopefully my questions make sense. Looking forward to replies

[Babylonius]

CB:TP - it's not a big loss to hold onto it. The general rule of thumb is to use it when you won't cap energy, delay RSK, won't cap Chi with your next Jab, and don't have CB:BoK up UNLESS Tiger Power is about to fall off or has fallen off. I use it to fill GCDs before the next Jab once I don't have enough Chi to do anything else and won't cap energy. It's biggest use is a no cost global to get more energy.

Chi Wave - this should be used practically on CD as it provides more damage than BoK, making it right after RSK in the priority. I can seem some merit or discussion in using or holding it if you're going to energy cap, but other than that it should be used when it's up. That damage and no cost flobals really add up in the end.

Energizing Brew - Use it on CD when you're at or below 60 energy. If you're not using it on CD then you have too much haste. There may be special circumstances where you can hold it but they should be rare and you may run into energy problems in the long run. We set up our haste levels based around the assumption of using it on CD.

[Deleted]

thank you for the response