[5.4] Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Enpoli]

I don't think Touch of Karma scales with TEB. In my experience it seems most of the crazy Karma damage comes from using Fort Brew with it, sometimes combo'd with Diffuse Magic. I think the increased health pool is part of what's screwing with the damage scaling there.

Haven't tested any of this, it's just my guess from playing around with it.

[Emophia]

I see monks running around with 15k haste.

How does that work? I only have 10.5k /w chi brew and I have a super hard time not energy capping, feels impossible for me not to cap at/near the start of the pull and during lust while trying to use chi brew unless I'm aoing, how are these guys doing it with 15k + thoks?

[Babylonius]

I see monks running around with 15k haste.

How does that work? I only have 10.5k /w chi brew and I have a super hard time not energy capping, feels impossible for me not to cap at/near the start of the pull and during lust while trying to use chi brew unless I'm aoing, how are these guys doing it with 15k + thoks?

Do you have AoC? That makes up for a bit of haste. It's impossible for just about everyone to not cap at the start during lust, that's one of the reasons the dev's say that WW is only restricted by globals, not energy. A few weeks back I did some research and found that the average of the top 100 monks was around 13125, I don't remember seeing more than one or two with 15k haste. Just because you see them running around, doesn't mean they're doing it right.

Could pretty easily go that high on Fallen Protectors while you're aoeing, but single target shouldn't need 15k unless you're not using EB which is wrong.

[Emophia]

Do you have AoC? That makes up for a bit of haste. It's impossible for just about everyone to not cap at the start during lust, that's one of the reasons the dev's say that WW is only restricted by globals, not energy. A few weeks back I did some research and found that the average of the top 100 monks was around 13125, I don't remember seeing more than one or two with 15k haste. Just because you see them running around, doesn't mean they're doing it right.

Could pretty easily go that high on Fallen Protectors while you're aoeing, but single target shouldn't need 15k unless you're not using EB which is wrong.

Thanks for the reply, yeah I do have AoC, and yeah 15k was probably a bit of hyperbole but I was just surprised to see people with so much more haste than me and how they managed to handle it.

Thanks!

[Callimonk]

Haste is more of a "guideline" than anything else. I'm actually pushing up to getting 15k or more right now - it's more about finding a level where you are comfortable, but also not sacrificing crit cap.

[gummybear]

Hey guys I got a question about Windwalker tier gears. I'm mostly doing Normal SoO and probably won't be doing any heroics. With that said I find the WW Tier gears to have a lot of Crit/Mastery instead of Haste/Crit which I need.

So should I be using the Tier 553 normal Helm & Gloves vs the ones I have now? I have 553 Kor'kron Elite Skullmask (haste/mastery) & 553 Siid's Silent Stranglers (crit/haste). Both the tier helm & gloves have crit/mastery and I'd lose a pretty big chunk of Haste. Right now I'm sitting at around 10,500 haste and I sometimes feel energy starved.

The tier pieces has the benefit of 4 piece set bonus & red gem slots for more agi.

Sorry I can't post my armory link atm. My char is Velvetsong on US server.

[Jocias]

Hey guys I got a question about Windwalker tier gears. I'm mostly doing Normal SoO and probably won't be doing any heroics. With that said I find the WW Tier gears to have a lot of Crit/Mastery instead of Haste/Crit which I need.

So should I be using the Tier 553 normal Helm & Gloves vs the ones I have now? I have 553 Kor'kron Elite Skullmask (haste/mastery) & 553 Siid's Silent Stranglers (crit/haste). Both the tier helm & gloves have crit/mastery and I'd lose a pretty big chunk of Haste. Right now I'm sitting at around 10,500 haste and I sometimes feel energy starved.

The tier pieces has the benefit of 4 piece set bonus & red gem slots for more agi.

Sorry I can't post my armory link atm. My char is Velvetsong on US server.

A link to your armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tsong/advanced

The reason that you're feeling energy starved is because you are. 10.5k haste is the upper end of where you'd want to be with AoC. Since you aren't using AoC, you should be looking at closer to 13k haste.

Also, it looks like about half your gear is PvP gear. I'm sure you know this, but PvP gear can't be upgraded, so you'll want to replace that gear as soon as you can. Especially as you run out of other gear to upgrade.

The 4pc T16 bonus sims about evenly with using 2pc T16 bonus with two warforged off-pieces that have more valuable secondary stats. I prefer the 2pc with warforged because it provides more consistent chi generation, but it's all up to personal preference. If you don't have the proper warforged off-pieces, then using the 4pc will provide more DPS. If the alternatives you have to the poorly statted tier pieces are of equal ilvl, you should just keep the 4pc and make due with the extra mastery.

Assuming you have no warforged gear, and you won't be getting any for the foreseeable future, this is about the best you can do with only 553 gear: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/5...3-de737e7ae9b1

The above is just a rough guide. Don't pass on any leather agility gear that will replace your PvP gear. Pretty much any leather piece with agility on it will be an upgrade over your PvP gear once you upgrade the ilvl.

[Deleted]

I've been lurking for about a month and this guide really helped with my rotation, managing to frequently get in to the top 3 DPS on normal without even trying to hard now. So yeah, cheers!

[Chickat]

Is 93k dps okay for an item level 500 monk on dummys? I cant for the life of me remember how much people were doing at those item levels.

[Jocias]

Is 93k dps okay for an item level 500 monk on dummys? I cant for the life of me remember how much people were doing at those item levels.

The best thing you can provide us with is some logs. What would be even better is logs from an actual raid environment. What's important is your energy and chi usage as well as your TP buff uptime and the usage of your rotational abilities and CDs like RSK, FoF, EB, and TeB.

Also, a link to your armory so we can make sure you're geared correctly.

[Treeskee]

Picked up my monk again and got some shoulders off Ordos, is it worth losing 4pc for? Flex < Warforged.

Armory

New Shoulders (Can also be seen on Armory page I believe.)

Have more than enough VP to upgrade them also.

[Babylonius]

Picked up my monk again and got some shoulders off Ordos, is it worth losing 4pc for? Flex < Warforged.

Armory

New Shoulders (Can also be seen on Armory page I believe.)

Have more than enough VP to upgrade them also.

Yes. 4pc is worth dropping for that WF piece.

[Jocias]

Picked up my monk again and got some shoulders off Ordos, is it worth losing 4pc for? Flex < Warforged.

Armory

New Shoulders (Can also be seen on Armory page I believe.)

Have more than enough VP to upgrade them also.

Yes. 4pc is worth dropping for that WF piece.

It should be about even. The 4pc is worth 1-2 ilvl worth of gear. Consider that Treeskee is going from the shoulders with the best secondary stat combination to higher ilvl shoulders with worse secondary stats and worse gems sockets. Also consider the ilvl difference is 19 between the two. That makes the overall ilvl difference just over 1 ilvl.

You'd have to sim your damage to be sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is almost no difference between the two.

Also, I just noticed that you're using orange agi+crit gems in your red sockets. Red sockets should always have pure agi gems in them.

Here's a link to AMR, a tool for optimizing your gemming, enchanting, and reforging: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/3...d-11a4ffd9ebf6
Just click on the big green box that says Optimized and that should put you on the right track for what you might want to change for further improving your DPS.

[kpii]

Noticed that the priority list doesn't include fists of fury and chi burst, can someone help me with where they fit?

[Jocias]

Noticed that the priority list doesn't include fists of fury and chi burst, can someone help me with where they fit?

Chi Burst is on the same talent tier as Chi Wave. For single target, you always take Chi Wave. Chi Burst is great for fights like Galakras where you have a handful of mobs or more to hit with Chi Burst pretty much on CD.

Fists of Fury has about a half a dozen caveats by which you must abide before it's a DPS increase. I'm not going to list them all out here, but if you do a quick search of this thread, you should be able to find all the criteria that make FoF a DPS increase.

In WoD, FoF will be used on CD with very few exceptions. This thread covers how to play WW in MoP, though, so that doesn't apply here.

[Deleted]

How much is the T16 2piece worth? I have a Hood of Blackened Tears HC WF +4 and Headpiece of Seven Sacred Seals N +0, would dropping the 2piece be worth it for the 35 itemlevel difference on the headpiece?
I can't simulate without manually putting in all my stats because armory is down for my server due to a merge, so if this question is answerable without simming, I would appreciate help.

[kpii]

Chi Burst is on the same talent tier as Chi Wave. For single target, you always take Chi Wave. Chi Burst is great for fights like Galakras where you have a handful of mobs or more to hit with Chi Burst pretty much on CD.

Fists of Fury has about a half a dozen caveats by which you must abide before it's a DPS increase. I'm not going to list them all out here, but if you do a quick search of this thread, you should be able to find all the criteria that make FoF a DPS increase.

In WoD, FoF will be used on CD with very few exceptions. This thread covers how to play WW in MoP, though, so that doesn't apply here.

Sorry, and where does chi wave rank in the priority list?

[Jocias]

Chi Wave is cast on cooldown as long as you aren't delaying RSK, letting your TP buff fall off, or capping on energy.

[Babylonius]

How much is the T16 2piece worth? I have a Hood of Blackened Tears HC WF +4 and Headpiece of Seven Sacred Seals N +0, would dropping the 2piece be worth it for the 35 itemlevel difference on the headpiece?
I can't simulate without manually putting in all my stats because armory is down for my server due to a merge, so if this question is answerable without simming, I would appreciate help.

I can reasonably assume that with such a huge ilvl difference plus the Hood being BiS, breaking the 2pc is worth it.

[Jocias]

How much is the T16 2piece worth? I have a Hood of Blackened Tears HC WF +4 and Headpiece of Seven Sacred Seals N +0, would dropping the 2piece be worth it for the 35 itemlevel difference on the headpiece?
I can't simulate without manually putting in all my stats because armory is down for my server due to a merge, so if this question is answerable without simming, I would appreciate help.

I can reasonably assume that with such a huge ilvl difference plus the Hood being BiS, breaking the 2pc is worth it.

Prepare to be surprised. The 2pc is worth a lot. If Rhachlirith were to actually use the tier helm, he would be upgrading it as quickly as he could. The real difference between the two helms, both fully upgraded, is 1.19 overall ilvl.

The 2pc is better for single target or any encounter where you'll be spending most of your energy on Jab. The more you use energy on abilities other than Jab, the less valuable the 2pc is.

IJ is the closest thing to a patchwork fight that we've seen in a while. It represents a practical maximum for the value of the 2pc T16.

With the 2pc on IJ, BoK is about 25% of your damage.

You'll have about 70 casts of Jab in the fight, on average. Out of those 70 jabs, 12% of them will cause a CB: BoK. That adds up to about 9 BoKs.
You'll also have 60 casts of BoK, on average. That includes the 9 CB: BoKs. Those 9 BoKs hit 40% harder than the regular BoKs.
So, .25 * ((70 * .12) / 60) * 1.4 = 0.049. That means that on a pure single target fight, the 2pc is worth about 5 total ilvl.

As it is, with your helm not upgraded, the 35 ilvl difference is only about 2.19 overall ilvl. The 2pc is still almost certainly more powerful than the 2.19 ilvl loss.

Once you upgrade the tier helm, I can guarantee you that losing 1.19 ilvl from equipping your tier helm will be worth it.

On a side note, like Babs said, Hood of Blackened Tears is our BiS hat, so hold onto it. If you have your choice of tier pieces, the shoulders and the legs should be the two that you want. Even with the Hood being our BiS because of its superior combo of secondary stats, the power of the 2pc just outshines the ilvl upgrade.