Rogue PvE Compendium - the do's and dont's [6.2]

[Coldkil]

Major passes on the guide are done. New rotations/mechanics should all be covered and explained, only grievance are enchants since it seems there's something not working correctly after stat squish (like procs and uptimes).

Ideally the MoP ones are still all good, but we'll ahve more iterations in the next days until WoD comes out.

- - - Updated - - -

released the guide for 6.0 - keep in mind that many things can change in the MoP to WoD transition and if i wrote something plain worng, point it out and i'll fix it.

[Bizerk]

Agi gives 1ap and no crit now afaik which should alter some of the priorities.

[Coldkil]

Agi gives 1ap and no crit now afaik which should alter some of the priorities.

I know, still from calculations its EP is still higher than other secondary stats.

edit: i found it strange too. I'll double check another time.

[Deleted]

whats the reason for crit gems @ combat ?

[Shao]

This ^
What about Gemming Mastery for Main Gauche?

[Coldkil]

The reason is most likely to get the socket bonus on the item.

Both Mastery and Crit are below Haste in priority - anyway the EP difference isn't that huge to say "haste goes in all slots".

Mastery stacking for combat has been "killed" with the Main Gauche nerfs before patch has gone live.

[Coldkil]

Updated info about Shadow Apparition and vendetta usage for Assassination - not a huge dps change but still worth mentioning.

[Extremities]

Great guide,

I do have a question though. The Rogue was my original character back in Vanilla days and loved it but the 1 thing that I always complained about was the energy regen. With them allowing haste to increase energy regen, how is it nowadays at 90 with gear? My rogue is currently 75 that Im leveling up but again noticing that energy is once again the issue. How is the energy regen issue nowadays? Its been a long time since Ive played my rogue and out of the loop but starting it up again. Does haste make a noticeable difference now with energy?

[Feali]

Great guide,

I do have a question though. The Rogue was my original character back in Vanilla days and loved it but the 1 thing that I always complained about was the energy regen. With them allowing haste to increase energy regen, how is it nowadays at 90 with gear? My rogue is currently 75 that Im leveling up but again noticing that energy is once again the issue. How is the energy regen issue nowadays? Its been a long time since Ive played my rogue and out of the loop but starting it up again. Does haste make a noticeable difference now with energy?

It's much better as long as you don't play Combat with low gear. The Venomous Wounds change is just great for low geared Assassination Rogues. Combat gets better and better the more gear you get.

[Deleted]

whats the reason for crit gems @ combat ?

I'm wondering this too. What're we supposed to gem and what is the EP weight per stat?

[Coldkil]

Here's the details:

atm stat weights are subject to many changes due to new thinggs being discovered/changed by Blizz, plus i have been sick for the last efw days and the guide wasn't updated for a long-ish time. Anyway keep in mind that nothig is set on stone - i ahve updated the guide with new stat priorities and for stat weights/more detailed discussion you can do a check on Ryme's thread which contains an extremely well done analysis.

Specifically for crit and combat: i don't know fro where this started. Even for outdated stat weights crit was pretty low on priority (now it's the last one) and haste/mastery/multistrike were superior to it from the beginning. So there has never been need to gem for it until there is some strange gem combination that i don't know and you ned to use to get specific item bonuses.

Keep in mind that once WoD hits, there will be no more main stat gems available (with new recipes).

[Coldkil]

Updated again stat weights for all specs, plus adding a table of contents and convenient links to navigate better through the guide.

Writing it also here: combat stat weights are so near to each other that it's very likely stat priority will change a lot during next period, also depending on if Blizz decides to change something.

[seraphbreak]

Great write up, at lvl 100 will all 3 specs be using deadly poison? Will Wound Poison ever be viable in Mythic raids?

[Coldkil]

Great write up, at lvl 100 will all 3 specs be using deadly poison? Will Wound Poison ever be viable in Mythic raids?

Yes, Deadly poison is the way for PvE. IIRC there will be also a WoD perk that changes Deadly Poison for Combat into Istant Poison.

Not that we have many choices - you can run without utility poison on since we're left only with crippling (and eventually Leeching if you take the talent).

[Deleted]

Hi guys, just a quick question regarding Mutilate V Ambush for Assassination (may sound stupid to actual good Rogues!)

Muti applies poisons instantly, so you're using it from the opener, it also procs BS (which can then crit) for up to 2 free CPs. My question is, when you Vanish - do you still Muti for the chance at an extra 2 free CPs or do you go for Ambush due to more damage?

I know if you were switching targets the original opener applies, and I'm pretty sure you basically never use Ambush but... Just for confirmation?

[Coldkil]

Use Mutilate - it deals more damage due to poison procs and being it a double attack and as you say more combo points; no reason to use Ambush.

[Deleted]

I just simmed it for assa at 100 with simcraft and ambush is a gain (+43) of 0.1%

Shadowcraft suggests its a 1% increase at 90 for my Rogue (highest tier gear)

[Rhodianni]

I have a few question about Rogue weapons.

It seems like every Dagger in WoD has 1.8 Speed and every Fist/Axe/Sword/Mace has 2.6 - I assume weapon speed is not something I should care about going forward ( ie 1.8 dagger vs 1.4 dagger or 2.6 Mace vs 2.4 Mace )?

For Assassination, I'll always 2 Daggers, equipping the one with the highest ilvl in to the Main Hand and if the ilvl are the same I'll just use the ones with the best secondary stats?

For Combat, always use a slow MH but the OH can be anything from Fast 1.8 Daggers to another 2.6 slow weapon?

What's the deal with Subtlety? MH dagger is required for Backstab but what weapon type do I want for my OH? Another dagger just like Assassination or a slow weapon?

[Kael]

I have a few question about Rogue weapons.

Just the two weapon speeds for us now, fast (1.8) and slow (2.6). Always two daggers, DPS MH (normally this means highest ilevel), stats by hand don't matter. Combat... is in an awkward place. I want to say that currently, for the same ilevel weapons, it sits at 2.6/2.6 > 1.8/2.6 > 2.6/1.8. Would have to check with one of our sim-runners again to make sure. MH dagger, normally dagger OH - for execessive ilevel gaps, use the highest available offhand.

[Coldkil]

I just simmed it for assa at 100 with simcraft and ambush is a gain (+43) of 0.1%

Shadowcraft suggests its a 1% increase at 90 for my Rogue (highest tier gear)

That assumes perfect execution, correct energy pooling and usage of Vanish on CD. Waith a couple of seconds too much and the dps increase disappears - we're still talking about 43dps over 35-40k total.

We can safely assume both are on par - i prefer Muti voer Ambush for more CP generation.