Rogue PvE Compendium - the do's and dont's [6.2]

[Deleted]

Basically with increased fron envenom damage, you can safely say that pooling and not pooling net you roughly the same damage.

This anyway doesn't change the fact that pooling is no more necessary - you can still do it, but you won't have a significantly better performance (if better performance at all).

About the guide: i updated combat section after the DfA fix, and finally updated information about gems/enchants sections.

Wait what? Of course pooling is a DPS increase. You want to get as many Mutilates or Dispatches in with the Envonom buff up because they'll do 30% increased damage due to the WoD perk.

Pooling like this in no way changes the total number of Envenoms cast during a fight so what you are saying makes no sense at all.

[Coldkil]

Wait what? Of course pooling is a DPS increase. You want to get as many Mutilates or Dispatches in with the Envonom buff up because they'll do 30% increased damage due to the WoD perk.

Pooling like this in no way changes the total number of Envenoms cast during a fight so what you are saying makes no sense at all.

Which has been clarified already and put into the guide.

[Deleted]

Which has been clarified already and put into the guide.

Oh, heh. I must have missed that bit... You have my sincerest apologies <3

[Coldkil]

Oh, heh. I must have missed that bit... You have my sincerest apologies <3

No problem feel free to point out if something in the guide is not clear enough or worded poorly, i'll provide to fix it asap.

[Scharin]

At the Sub-part of your first post it says

Stat priority: AGI > Mastery >= Multistrike > Versatility > Crit > Haste

But I thought with the fix so that our Sinister Calling can crit once again (the Backstab multistrike part) that multistrike went top of stat prio ;o

[Coldkil]

At the Sub-part of your first post it says

But I thought with the fix so that our Sinister Calling can crit once again (the Backstab multistrike part) that multistrike went top of stat prio ;o

You're right, fixed.

[Deleted]

Based on Simulationcraft, Multistrike is slightly ahead of haste now for combat. Is that true?

[Ryme]

Based on Simulationcraft, Multistrike is slightly ahead of haste now for combat. Is that true?

The answer is that it's complicated. It's not going to be true in any respect until very late BRF, haste is the way to go until then.

[Coldkil]

The answer is that it's complicated. It's not going to be true in any respect until very late BRF, haste is the way to go until then.

Worth mentioning also that if you're Blade Flurry-ing Multistrike loses power the more targets are present; i'd stay haste for a better overall experience.

[ZeroWashu]

Getting into rogue again, going to ask the dumb question of the day. Sub, is this dagger/dagger only? While leveling; 90+; I am leaning towards combat as I have the archaeology maces to make use of and not one good dagger unless I just burn off some blacksmith ingots. The only reason for the sub inquiry is that I used that ages ago for solo work and combat for 5 mans. Will combat suffice for leveling or should I go back to sub and dig up some daggers?

[Coldkil]

For leveling, go with whatever spec pleases you the most; they're all effective in some aspect (assa requires zero setup, combat can be done stealthless + cleave, sub has a great opening burst).

As for weapons, Sub will require a dagger in mh at least (and with dagger/dagger as optimal setup); you can run a slow weapon in MH and use Hemo only as builder, but it's quite a dps loss which makes it not viable (you resort to Hemo for solo play if the mob isn't still dead after your opening).

[Deleted]

- Stats breakdown

• Agility (AGI): the main stat for rogues for every spec. It gives 1 attack power per point and a small amount of crit%. With leather specialization we get a passive 5% boost to it.
• Crit rating: simple as that, all our attacks have a chance to deal more damage, this chance is the crit%. Crit rating increases this chance, but it's a weak stat overall due to rogue mechanics not favoring attack crits.
• Haste: increases attack speed, aswell as energy regeneration.
• Mastery: its effect changes depending on the spec, and can be very powerful in some cases, while very lackluster in some others. You can learn it at level 80 from class trainers.
• Multistrike: new stat introduced with WoD - it gives a chance to our spells to attack up to 2 more times for 30% of the damage dealt. It's a no-brainer proc for additional damage, but Subtlety makes of it the main stat because of the new Blade Twisting mechanic.
• Versatility: the second new stat introduced with WoD; it increases damage, healing, absorptions and reduces damage taken by a flat amount. Overall a nice stat to have but any of the specs focuses on it.

-----------------

 
 Assassination

Focused on poisons damage. Need to use double daggers due to Mutilate / Dispatch used as primary CP generating moves.

Stat priority: AGI > Mastery >= Crit > Multistrike > Versatility >> Haste

You say crit is weak because Rogue mechanics don't favor it but the go on to list is as a top stat for Mut spec (which it really is)

Also the Versatility bit should read, 'Overall a nice stat to have but none of the specs focus on it.'

Nothing major, just noticed as I was reading through.

[Coldkil]

You say crit is weak because Rogue mechanics don't favor it but the go on to list is as a top stat for Mut spec (which it really is)

Also the Versatility bit should read, 'Overall a nice stat to have but none of the specs focus on it.'

Nothing major, just noticed as I was reading through.

Thanks for the pointers - will make the necessary changes. Specifically for assassination, Crit is being inflated by the set bonus; usually it isn't that high in priority (Assa still revolves around a fight between haste and mastery). I'm also adding this for clarification.

EDIT: strangely ehough (maybe not) i did some test runs with a number of rogues from the armory, so i had a decent sample of different ilvl and gearing setups; Crit for assa is indeed the second stat, very likley due to Seal Fate. Specified it in the related section of the guide (T17 set bonus still buffs Crit).

[skmage]

Looked at the guide and I didn't see it or else I'm blind. What is the optimal opener for Combat PvE?

[Grayjoy]

Looked at the guide and I didn't see it or else I'm blind. What is the optimal opener for Combat PvE?

I'm pretty sure - could be wrong - that it's MfD - SnD -pot - Ambush - RvS - KS.

Could also be pot - Ambush - RvS - SnD - KS

Regardless, you want to get KS up ASAP. I like the MfD opener because it allows you to get into deep insight without dropping SnD.

[Deleted]

without MfD it would look like

Prepot > ambush > RvS > SnD > a few(2-4) sinister strikes until you're out of energy > KS > Adrenaline rush > spam SS/Evi

[Leih]

I'm trying to help our Rogue, because she's struggling a lot with DPS at the moment. She's playing Combat though, which I unfortunately haven't played at all since 5.4. I was wondering, with the way RvS now doesn't advance Guile, is there any guideline for what threshold to swap SS for RvS to delay Guile for KS/AR? Is it even worth doing it all, since you might just be better off fitting in as many red phases as possible?

[Merope]

I'm trying to help our Rogue, because she's struggling a lot with DPS at the moment. She's playing Combat though, which I unfortunately haven't played at all since 5.4. I was wondering, with the way RvS now doesn't advance Guile, is there any guideline for what threshold to swap SS for RvS to delay Guile for KS/AR? Is it even worth doing it all, since you might just be better off fitting in as many red phases as possible?

Revealing strike's primary function is to maintain the debuff on the target.
Its secondary function is to delay BG only if a) deep insight is one SS away and KS or AR is coming off cooldown AND b) you are about to energy cap.
This will happen, but not very often and it requires awareness.

[Leih]

Yeah, I'm aware in general of what Revealing Strike is for. I played Rogue a lot in MoP.

I was just wondering if there was any known guideline for when/if it's worth using the new functionality they added in 6.0 for it to delay Deep Insight. I couldn't find any definitive word for when/if it was a DPS gain to make use of it other than "sometimes"

But I guess if what you say is true it's fairly rare circumstances that it's ever worth it, so I won't stress our rogue with such details till she gets better with the basics.

[raivek]

I think I've got combat down pretty good now, finally trying to learn Sub. Just for clarification my rotation would look something like this?

Open with ambush.

5CP SnD
5CP Rupture
Hemo to keep of SVein
Backstab to build CP

Use Vanish on CD, make sure I have the energy for ambush.
Prep right after, same deal with energy.

Shadow Dance on CD (Or when SnS and Rupture will last the full duration of the dance?)
Was also pooling energy with arcane torrent to top off.
Spam Ambush while SDing.

I have beating heart of the mountain, recommend using that with SD or just on CD?


Also, I only have one pvp dagger. No luck in HM or BRF so far. Should I really prioritize getting a second dagger or can I use my H Phemos Cleaver as offhand? I have a ton of mastery gear which I know is good for our offhand (unless I'm mistaken). I definitely prefer combat, but on fights like Gruul or Butcher I should be playing Sub.

Thanks!