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  1. #221
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kylecat15 View Post
    Yeah maybe if you are all 540+..

    take my guild for example, we just started and I am highest at 530 and we struggled on immersius (due to healers) but the raid feels very tuned for us because we arent all straight out of ToT hardmodes..
    Certainly agree with this. Normal feels well tuned for its intended audience; not soul-crushingly hard but nothing is a true cakewalk, which is how it should be as normal guilds can progress at a steady pace well behind the hardcore guilds (naturally) but not be stuck for half the tier on an early boss.
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  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Certainly agree with this. Normal feels well tuned for its intended audience; not soul-crushingly hard but nothing is a true cakewalk, which is how it should be as normal guilds can progress at a steady pace well behind the hardcore guilds (naturally) but not be stuck for half the tier on an early boss.
    That's great. The reason this thread even exists is because normal mode guilds that have raided all of ToT became overgeared because of Legendaries and item upgrades. We aren't used to steamrolling content.

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterik View Post
    HC raiders stomping normal SoO.

    More news @11
    Strange, attempting normal mode with heroic gear that does almost 2x the DPS and heals of the normal gear that normal mode is intended for, results in easy normal mode.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Landin55 View Post
    Lich King anyone?
    A lot of guilds got stopped before that with many still struggling to progress past the first six even with a 30% buff. Most of the heroic guilds took weeks to down LK on normal when he was unlocked. For the entry of normal being tuned this low it is possible Blizzard wants to keep normal mode guilds in normal and not have them jump ship to Flex. The raid is still ramping up, just the question becomes how good is it in the long run with such a fast progression start as the faster a guild can initially progress will mean the faster they get gear to help them overpower the last few encounters. Do these players move on to heroic or quit or will the next expansion be out fast enough to not be an issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Karlzone View Post
    That's great. The reason this thread even exists is because normal mode guilds that have raided all of ToT became overgeared because of Legendaries and item upgrades. We aren't used to steamrolling content.
    It is a change and one of the issues that the lead raid designer talked about as an issue when item upgrades first came out was trying to figure out how to tune the raids and at what level of gear should they assume the players would be at. This gear level is something that the developers do have at hand. The legendary should not be something to be assumed to have which then would give an added boost which from that perspective should happen and make the aspect of putting in all that effort for the legendary feel that much more worth it. Another thing with ToT being so hard say compared to the joke that Terrace was is that it made a lot of these players into better players.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-09-14 at 05:43 AM.

  5. #225
    Idiotic thread. The normal version is tuned for players wearing around ilvl 522 gear. The difficulty curve is more linear than in ToT, i.e. no Horridon/Council/Megaera-style jumps in difficulty...it's much smoother with the beginning part of the instance being easier than the later part of the instance.

    More often than not, threads like this where someone claims "lolol this is too easy" isn't about an objective statement about the difficulty, it's almost always a dingbat trying to let others know how awesome he is for having done it. This thread seems to be more of the same.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullshot View Post
    Idiotic thread. The normal version is tuned for players wearing around ilvl 522 gear. The difficulty curve is more linear than in ToT, i.e. no Horridon/Council/Megaera-style jumps in difficulty...it's much smoother with the beginning part of the instance being easier than the later part of the instance.

    More often than not, threads like this where someone claims "lolol this is too easy" isn't about an objective statement about the difficulty, it's almost always a dingbat trying to let others know how awesome he is for having done it. This thread seems to be more of the same.

    I think the weird part is, the raid is a joke, but gives items that were better than last tier's heroic gear. Now I can understand them doing that with normal modes, that's what has always happened and made sense, but flex also dropping incredibly good gear with very little effort is just bizarre lol. People just aren't used to going into stuff *that* easy and getting gear that strong I guess.

  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    I can't help myself. We had our first evening in SOO, 4 hours raiding - and killed 9/13, only 1 wipe over the complete evening (on dark shamans) - and no, we're not hardcore. We didn't have PTR raids, we played really bad, made soooooooooo many mistakes - but ilvl 545 simply made you skip all mechanics.

    In TOT, we needed 4 days to complete normal mode. In SOO, i get the feeling it won't be more than 2 days. That's ridicilous. All bosses sounded a lot more fun in videos and guides, so punishing - but in the end, it's way too easy. And i don't understand it, our twinkraid will go for 14/14 on friday and i feel they're gonna do it without problems.

    Normal mode feels like what flex raiders should expect. Right now, there would have to be a huge gap. But i feel like normal mode farming will be very very boring because of ridicilous low tuning.

    Your thoughts?
    My thought is you re not smart enough to understand that difficulty level tuned for players with Item lvl 522-530, can not be considered the same difficulty level for players with item level 545, so I logged in to point this out for you.


    if you re too well geared for a sandbox, go play on the ball court.
    Simples.

  8. #228
    So it was easy with 540+ Gear in a raid made for 515-522 Gear, if you would have wiped i would feel sad for you. You need to checkout heroic, if its then still to easy then the raid can be considered to be undertuned.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    I think the weird part is, the raid is a joke, but gives items that were better than last tier's heroic gear. Now I can understand them doing that with normal modes, that's what has always happened and made sense, but flex also dropping incredibly good gear with very little effort is just bizarre lol. People just aren't used to going into stuff *that* easy and getting gear that strong I guess.
    I sympathize. And even if they go along with the item squish, having 4 different raid modes and the item upgrade system in place means that we would soon be in a similar situation and they have to do the item squish every 2 expansions. Quite a sloppy design.

  10. #230
    High Overlord titcch's Avatar
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    It's just as easy as ToT normal... but you can be assured that heroic won't be a cakewalk after the 5 or 6th boss.

    Normal isn't aimed at 545ilvl+, we have multiple split raids going through it to maximize on tier and such and we're rolling through 13/14 in one night, but our gear average is well above the intended audience. I can see from wow progress that the intended audience are around 9/14~ by now after two nights of raiding which is absolutely fine for normals as you can bet they won't be killing Garrosh until the second or third reset.
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  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    I can't help myself. We had our first evening in SOO, 4 hours raiding - and killed 9/13, only 1 wipe over the complete evening (on dark shamans) - and no, we're not hardcore. We didn't have PTR raids, we played really bad, made soooooooooo many mistakes - but ilvl 545 simply made you skip all mechanics.

    In TOT, we needed 4 days to complete normal mode. In SOO, i get the feeling it won't be more than 2 days. That's ridicilous. All bosses sounded a lot more fun in videos and guides, so punishing - but in the end, it's way too easy. And i don't understand it, our twinkraid will go for 14/14 on friday and i feel they're gonna do it without problems.

    Normal mode feels like what flex raiders should expect. Right now, there would have to be a huge gap. But i feel like normal mode farming will be very very boring because of ridicilous low tuning.

    Your thoughts?
    Its tuned for ilvl 520, there ya go.


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  12. #232
    Stood in the Fire
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    BTW if it s too easy, you can just take off one of your items, and then do it. Start with putting your head piece into your bags, if still too easy switch that with your weapon for example...

  13. #233
    SoO is the last instance of the expansion, which means it will be maybe even a year 'till we see new tier. All in all, this is the easiest tier of all in MoP (just remember, e.g., Garalon in T14 or Horridon in T15). Even with heroics yet to come, it's kinda disappointing.

    To keep people busy in T16 for half a year or so, heroics have to be frustrating hard (which again, is double edged sword). Also, compared to T15, the most of bosses are less complex, which is, IMHO, step in the wrong direction (especially with new, flexi, mode).

  14. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    People just aren't used to going into stuff *that* easy and getting gear that strong I guess.
    the reason its so visible atm is how retarded gear scaling is with exponential rise in performance with stats on gear -_- also part of the reason people see and will see even bigger and faster rise in numbers is cause eveyr single gear piece they will obtain will be instantly upgraded which means that they are geting 561 loot -_-

    Quote Originally Posted by titcch View Post
    Normal isn't aimed at 545ilvl+, we have multiple split raids going through it to maximize on tier and such and we're rolling through 13/14 in one night, but our gear average is well above the intended audience. I can see from wow progress that the intended audience are around 9/14~ by now after two nights of raiding which is absolutely fine for normals as you can bet they won't be killing Garrosh until the second or third reset.
    those who will end this week with 9/14 are people who were 6-8/13 HC in tot >< definetly not those who are target audience of normals -_-
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2013-09-14 at 07:56 PM.

  15. #235
    SoO is tuned prefect, its got a really nice smooth exponential difficulty ramp, straight from the 3rd boss it slowly starts to ramp up by time you get to 9 , 10 its more noticeable once you get to 12, 13, 14 you start seeing great leaps in the difficulty this is prefect, sure if your in 545+ ilv you should smash it but guess what people that were in 517+ smashed ToT as well, hell if half the nerfs that came in to horridon, council, megaera hit straight up i'm sure many more guilds would have done better as well.

    There is a lot more people that did better in ToT with much more time to upgrade and much more loot to farm everyone is coming into this tier more geared, anyways for those of us that did spend time on the ptr, well i'm sure you guys would feel as i do when ya gear is scaled down you can see the bosses becoming more challenging and well the heroic encounters were fun on the ptr to say the least.

    Blizzard have hit this patch prefect! Flex is Great! Normal difficulty ramp combined with flex is exactly what we need to get more people raiding again and get some more blood into the heroic scene And the timeless isle, i mean talk about the prefect alternative to dailies, the ordos coins are great for world pvp (i do wish there was a currency for killing people that where coined up, that would make it even more epic, like a civil war thing, but oh well half way there)

    Anyways all you guys stressing how easy it is, lets wait to next week and see if we get a OMFG HEROIC IS TO EASY THREAD.... i doubt it.

  16. #236
    Scarab Lord slime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattCauthron View Post
    Good luck on Garrosh?

    Go watch Exorsus wiping on it

    Also 10 man seems even more easily tuned than 25 man from my friends that I talked too.
    This is w/o a doubt in SoO.

  17. #237
    Banned Tierbook's Avatar
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    ya looks like this normal tier will be 2 easy for most just 5 days in and 130 guilds at least have killed Garrosh and nearly 10k have killed that first boss

  18. #238
    ToT normals were too hard for normals, SoOg normals are perfectly well tunned, my raid is on full BIS heroic (almost) and were roflostomping the place wich is what should be happening, we started our second night on Malkoro for instance wich is a gear chekc boss and surprise surprise we killed him in half a try with 2 minutes left on berserk or something like that, as it should be after all we vastly outgear normal content.

    Any guild that did only normal ToT or LFRs last tier is progressing at the right progress rate, finding dificulty when dificulty should be found. Dont complain normal mode Siege is too easy if you vastly outgear it, start heroics next week and youll find your chalenge there. Good luck on Paragon of the Klaxxi heroic, that stuf seens like hell on Earth, I predict the World First racers will get considerably stuck at this point and whoever downs them with the least amount of atempts will have a massive chance at winning the race.
    Last edited by DakonBlackblade; 2013-09-14 at 08:45 PM.

  19. #239
    its like this every time they release an instance since atleast firelands, Im not really sure if it goes further back as I dont play actively

  20. #240
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    I would say that the target audience for SOO normal, i.e. guilds that mostly did normal ToT, would be 2/14 or maybe 4/14 in by now. The guilds running roughshod over it were the semi-hardcore guilds that were half or further through heroic ToT, and of course the guilds that cleared heroic ToT very early are probably done of normal already, which is how it should be.
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