I am requiring my guild to do their spec's "Gold" Proving Grounds - thoughts?

[Deleted]

I'm split, i knew this thread was coming during ptr already
But gold is pretty easy for most classes even considering the scaling.

In the end, i think it can be a helpful tool as in your situation, to weed out the people who lack dedication/cant commit. I also think it can backfire quite bad

[Hastera]

There isn't anything wrong with a raid leader asking his raiders to prove that they can tap into 40% of their class' potential.

Yes, some classes have it harder, especially when we consider the endless waves, however every single player in this game should be and is 100% capable of completing gold, even a player who doesn't care at all about how he performs and runs around Shrine of the Two Moons enjoying the scenery.

If his raiders are quitting his guild for refusing to either attempt or keep trying to achieve gold in PG then they should either not be raiding because of their lack of basic understanding of their class or because of their lack of patience and determination.

In conclusion, get good.

[Tankitbetter]

So... you're brand new to them, you're an ex-hardcore and you're demanding things from a 1 night per week Flex raid? Yeah, that's got a bright future.

It's working

[Simulacrum]

...

Yes very close to a raiding-environment this comes. Not.

Sounds just like it to me. If everyone in your raid performs perfectly then what are you even doing there? Go dps and 1-heal it instead, eh.

[Deleted]

Snip. Yes very close to a raiding-environment this comes. Not.

I suppose that you're right about all this (you seem to know more about the healing one that I do). We're both trying to get the same point across though. Proving Grounds is nothing like real raiding. Proving Grounds does however tell you about class knowledge and dedication to some extend.

[Deleted]

The DPS one is about ONLY dpssing while not caring about standing in bad stuff.
The healing one is about waiting for damage before you heal it up with your cheapest spells (no preemptive healing). You just cannot wait for significant damage in raiding at this moment. Abilities just hurt too much.
The tank one is said to be the most challenging. The reason? It has very little to do with actually raid or dungeon tanking. You're supposed get aggro and then you cc and kite while your npc kills stuff for you.

What ? It's pretty exactly what you do in dungeons or raids, difference is without a healer "carrying" you. I think it will be great for new tanks, teaches raid awareness, that positioning matters, how to use active mitigation, cooldown usage, all while still having to push decent dps. You get basic tanking knowledge in a relaxed environment. I applaud blizzard for it tbh.

Did dps challenge as tank for the achievement and i had to plan offensive cooldown usuage, interupt, stuns etc.
Can't say for healing as i despise it

[Cyriaa]

It's a terrible test. It really doesn't apply for healers. It teaches healers nothing useful, and encourages bad habits.

What? That doesn't even make sense.
Proving grounds have nothing to do with raiding, and shouldn't be used to gauge the performance of a player.
I'm a damn good raider, always have been and it took me 3 hours to get gold as a healer.
Then I spent three days pulling my hair out to get endless 30+
I ended up getting it without regemming, enchanting, and the only reforging I did was remove the excess haste above the reachable haste breakpoint due to ilevel scaling and put it elsewhere, other than that I did nothing differently.

I want to know what bad habbits you're blabbin about PG teaches healers.
More specifically, I want to know how you know about these bad habbits considering you haven't even completed bronze healer.
Perhaps you should at least try it before passing judgement on it.

[Tankitbetter]

I suppose that you're right about all this (you seem to know more about the healing one that I do). We're both trying to get the same point across though. Proving Grounds is nothing like real raiding. Proving Grounds does however tell you about class knowledge and dedication to some extend.

Which basically has been my point all along.

[clevin]

I'm still not sure why you posted this. You're determined to do this, you don't care what anyone else says... so what's the point? Go run your raid however you want. If it works, fine. If you fail, tough shit. Given that you have no intention of altering your opinion, there's zero point in this post or thread. Discussion is only useful if both sides are willing to alter their opinions, otherwise you just have people stating their opinions ad nauseum- which is basically what this thread has become.

[Deleted]

I got up to endless 38 as a dps and 42 as a tank already (paladin).. if you cant get gold you really shouldnt be raiding at all..

Wow, with that level of brag you could at least have linked your armory?

[Solidsteel]

Gold proving grounds has been a joke for the 3 classes I've done it on. If they cannot get gold not only should they not be allowed to raid they should be removed from the guild.

[Deleted]

Now this is not a 'are you ready to raid' test, if you have players like the npc's in your group, you kick them out and replace them by capable people.
If I would encounter this in a real situation I would say once to get out of shit and stuff, but if they don't listen, I would leave myself.

You sound as if in your raids everyone plays perfect and you don't ever have unpredictable, hectic moments with high damage incoming. That is where the difference between a good and a bad healer lies, keep the raid alive, while there is chaos and not everyone plays perfect.

I've been playing a dps class since classic and my monk is my first healchar, maybe barely a month old. Doing LFR as a healer is horrible, it's not something where you really learn to heal good. I did Proving Grounds today and I have to say, the few hours until I reached up to wave 45 really helped me to play the class to a better extent. Granted, there are things you won't do in a raid, like not always using rmists or using healing orbs as a tank flashheal, but to keep a cool head when everything around you is nearly going to die, is something you won't experience in beginner content, like LFR or 5man dungeons.

Not to mention, in order to get somewhere decent in endless mode you have to spend quite a lot of gold reforging, regemming, getting other enchants, mess around with your talents and heal damage that should not happen in the first place without being able to regenerate a decent amount of mana, you can't even use a potion. Yes very close to a raiding-environment this comes. Not.

Actually I did not even reforge, the only thing that cost me money was 1 talent respec book, 1 spirit flask and 2 300spirit food. Granted, if you really want to perform good you better reforge (I do that for dps challenges too), but this thread is mostly about gold and you don't need to change anything to reach that.

[TirielWoW]

What? That doesn't even make sense.
Proving grounds have nothing to do with raiding, and shouldn't be used to gauge the performance of a player.
I'm a damn good raider, always have been and it took me 3 hours to get gold as a healer.
Then I spent three days pulling my hair out to get endless 30+
I ended up getting it without regemming, enchanting, and the only reforging I did was remove the excess haste above the reachable haste breakpoint due to ilevel scaling and put it elsewhere, other than that I did nothing differently.

I want to know what bad habbits you're blabbin about PG teaches healers.
More specifically, I want to know how you know about these bad habbits considering you haven't even completed bronze healer.
Perhaps you should at least try it before passing judgement on it.

I got gold multiple times on the PTR. I've been testing it for months, thanks. I was one of the loudest critics of the many, many issues with the NPC AI.

I'll get around to it when I get around to it, but as I stated in a previous post (that apparently you skipped), I don't really have the time, energy, or gold to spend regemming and re enchanting my gear.

I'm curious what class you play, because the experience in Proving Grounds depends heavily on the class and spec you choose.

[MonsieuRoberts]

Glad to see that it's worked for you. Seems like a good requirement to me when raiding with unknowns.

[Cirque]

Id rather prove myself in a raid, not some mini-game set up on the side for some entertainment. Id be kind of offended and most likely tell you to go to hell "requiring" me. HA

Well, I don't know, why? If I were in that guild and the GM requests this gold, I won't feel like it's because of MY performance in the raid, which will no doubt have been most satisfactory. I would just oneshot gold and be done with it. Why would you be offended, if you're really good?

I raid at a high level, by the way, but I have joined very casual guilds on my alts and I know how "bad" people can be, and how frustrated it can be for the GM who go to various lengths to do ANYTHING to improve their raiders. If, in this casual guild I was in, gold was required, I'm pretty sure most would be unable to get it, some would be angry because they KNOW they cannot get it and knowing others know this too, would be offended and humiliated and /gquit. Typically, those people think their many mistakes and underperformance in the raid goes by unnoticed because there's other people to "cover up". Thinking back to those days, thinking of who would be those who gquit, I'd just be happy they left TBH. Similarly, I remember some players who genuinely wanted to improve and I think such a requirement would have motivated them to improve themselves, even if it's just by realizing their gemming is really weird.

[Bigbazz]

I dont think proving grounds Gold is "easy" even though I was able to beat it quite easily. The thing is when you have heroic mode raiders who have years of experience doing this and then calling it "easy" that means nothing for the average person. Gold isn't easy, just that some people have the skills to overcome it without difficulty. But I do find it humourous that people say they would leave the guild over this, high expectations to raid in guilds is something that has always been around.

For anyone who is especially good at something (like playing the guitar) it will usually seem easy to that person, when infact it is a difficult task. Back to Proving Grounds Gold, the class/spec makes a big difference. For example, doing it as an Arms Warrior is considerably easier than doing it as Fury, because the spec is more catered to the specific needs of the test.


If you can beat proving grounds Gold easily, you're a skilled player, but the test doesn't have much in common with raiding encounters and the challenges/difficulties that cause issue, specifically awareness of stuff that kills you.

[Deleted]

the class/spec makes a big difference. For example, doing it as an Arms Warrior is considerably easier than doing it as Fury, because the spec is more catered to the specific needs of the test.

Did Gold and a few waves of endless with both, Shadow Priest and Lock, today (didn't really bother doing it earlier/more) and have to agree.
As a Lock it felt way easier than with the SP.

Gold is definitely doable with all classes/specs, however, with some it's undoubtedly harder than with others.

[F4ulty]

I enjoyed reading the OP mainly because I felt like I was reading a research article.

Interesting

[Outofmana]

Gold as a healer doesn't even come close to what you have to do in a raid setting, (at least in 25man), you might as well ask them to join a ballet club and only if they can perform "Swan Lake" perfectly they are allowed in your raid; just as useless.

I did oneshot gold but it was not "lololol easy" , I was rather happy my tank survived the times it was on <5% when I was oom since I probably wouldn't even have tried it again if I had failed, Holy Priest with lvl 464 ilvl is simply not fun at all to do, it's hell and if my guild would make it a requirement I would gquit as well out of principle of introducing bullshit rules.

[Tankitbetter]

I enjoyed reading the OP mainly because I felt like I was reading a research article.

Interesting

Hah, is there any more information I could provide for you?