I am requiring my guild to do their spec's "Gold" Proving Grounds - thoughts?

[Deleted]

I went to an Openraid SoO event that had only one requirement - you must have Proving Grounds gold. And surprise surprise the raid was really nice, nobody stood in random crap, everybody knew tactics and the overall raid awareness was great too.

And getting gold in Proving Grounds is super easy. Got gold in 2 tries and and after that got to endless 17th round in 3 tries. Also I didn't have optimal gear and was using legendary gem, which doesn't work there. Probably more serious hc guilds should have at least endless 20 or 30 as a requirement.

Really endless 30? This is the real problem with PG. There are noobs running around with face roll over keyboard specs at 463 who feel like everyone should be able to do it aswell. Who are clueless about the way some specs work at that itemlvl.

[Floopa]

Really endless 30? This is the real problem with PG. There are noobs running around with face roll over keyboard specs at 463 who feel like everyone should be able to do it aswell. Who are clueless about the way some specs work at that itemlvl.

I hear fire mages work really well at 463 item level. Ele Shamans too! : ))))

[Deleted]

Fire mages without changing their gear/gems/specs etc will have a hard time getting gold. Took me like 3 attempts, and I've raided in top 100 world guilds and am currently in a top 200 guild. some people may struggle really hard to do this without changing their spec or meta gem/gearpieces.

- - - Updated - - -



Fire is EXTREMELY reliant on gear. Which means, when all your gear gets dumbed down to 463, you lose your meta gem and extremely important tier bonuses, you become extremely weak. Fire got nerfed every single patch, due to GEAR SCALING, yet you lose all this gear scaling in PG.

Fire is great in raids, but terrible in PG, I had problems (took me 3 attempts) to get gold as a fire mage, and I'm miles above average skillwise. (Got loads of rank 1s on WoL on heroic bosses, got top 100 kills on a lot of bosses, etc)

That just means that to complete Proving grounds on gold you will need to know your class's strengths (different specs) and how the class works in different gear levels. All in all an amazing thing to ask of your raiders do to, it isn't hard at all if you know what you are doing.

[Arainie]

Punishing casual guild raiders with gold is wrong. They need gold for lots of other ingame stuff like food, pots, enchants and possible item upgrades. It is problematic for them if they do not spend time for farming. And still if they do, why would they want to farm the gold for failing in raid? It is just stupid. DKP systems are the best and more than enough. If someone is really bad, help him or kick him if he is not changing. You already have tons of tools available. Gold shouldn't be one of them.

Duuuuuuuuuuude. I can't tell if you're a troll or if you just went full retard!

[Nobleshield]

People are missing the fact that PG doesn't really teach you anything. I've done Gold as a tank (working on Endless Wave 10) and like up to the last wave on Silver as DPS (Forgot to burn CDs and literally missed the time by a fraction of a second), and I can tell you that the Tanking PG taught nothing useful at all. Like I said before, it should have been about boss mechanics and things that occur in a raid not how to pull adds and junk. It's not a useful metric because it only teaches you the basics, which anyone who has raided even LFR and puts in effort (as opposed to the "LOL it's LFR who cares?" people that just half AFK) would know already. Bronze should have been about adds (since it's for heroic dungeons), Silver should have been adds and fire on the ground/cooldowns (LFR), and Gold should have been more boss mitigation and mechanics since it's Normal. If ToT was still current, someone with Gold Tank still wouldn't be taught how to time active mitigation for bosses like Horridon or Tortos because PG Gold doesn't teach you that.

Plus, in the tank one at least the damage is higher than what I've seen in raids or dungeons (haven't tried Challenge Mode to see if it's comparable to that because I can't find anyone willing to try it out) short of doing something totally stupid like turning your back to a raid boss, eating an unmitigated 4+ Talon Rake, eating a Decapitate without cooldowns, etc aka stupid things that you don't do unless you seriously derp it up. And I've previously stated the problem with gear scaling is that it's a totally different game in low gear than it is in high gear; I might as well try to gear like it was 5.0.4 again and farm heroic dungeon blues. I play a lot differently at 527 gear than I do at 463 gear due to the gear stats.

The main issue here isn't the worth of PG, it's demanding​ it as a requirement.

[Cosmoz]

Not everybody is good at doing solo content, I personally struggled with getting gold on my balance druid.

I'm a team player and have always been, so I don't see the point in excluding possible recruitments, you are merely denying yourself.

[Inthislzon]

someone with Gold Tank still wouldn't be taught how to time active mitigation for bosses like Horridon or Tortos because PG Gold doesn't teach you that.

Plus, in the tank one at least the damage is higher than what I've seen in raids or dungeons

Try... you know, timing your active mitigations for the bursts of damage. Hint: Start of wave 2 and start of wave 6.

If i were blizzard i'll stop anyone without gold to even enter LFR. Gold takes around 30 min on a new char (doing bronze and silver too) and it shows 2 things. The first being a basic understanding of "what your buttons do" and giving you a (very basic) mentality of what raiding is, as in "if i don't stick to a priority order i am wiping, even if it means less DPS due to switching", "if i don't interrupt this mob i will be put back and potentially wipe" or "if i get hit by this there's a good chance i will wipe".

To me that is the most valuable part of PG, as golds are not hard provided you can play half decently.

[Fungj]

If i were blizzard i'll stop anyone without gold to even enter LFR.

Didn't Blizzard mention something about PG being a requirement to enter LFR in 5.4?

[Teebone]

I am really on the fence about this. The DPS one for the most part should be a lockdown. I have great difficulty even getting the bronze healer one done on my monk because our mastery is completely useless on it. As a Windwalker, it was a breeze more or less. Opposite on my warrior. Tanking easy, DPS hard. It is NOT going to be the same for everyone. There's a lot of checks and balances Blizz needs to do on this for sure.

[Deleted]

Try... you know, timing your active mitigations for the bursts of damage. Hint: Start of wave 2 and start of wave 6.

If i were blizzard i'll stop anyone without gold to even enter LFR. Gold takes around 30 min on a new char (doing bronze and silver too) and it shows 2 things. The first being a basic understanding of "what your buttons do" and giving you a (very basic) mentality of what raiding is, as in "if i don't stick to a priority order i am wiping, even if it means less DPS due to switching", "if i don't interrupt this mob i will be put back and potentially wipe" or "if i get hit by this there's a good chance i will wipe".

To me that is the most valuable part of PG, as golds are not hard provided you can play half decently.

it ALL depends on class. as an enh shaman i had a hell of a time in gold due to target swapping half way across the map + being cd tied when i needed to swap to specific targets and having to auto attack for several seconds.. coupled with a cd that can only be used once every 45 seconds... now compare that to our guilds hunter.. who literally jus stood in the middle and derped as bm spec.

melee is harder than raged classes basically because you have to move and generally dont have a ranged interrupt and in some cases no cc. Also you forget that different classes in 463 gear have different strength levels.. not to mention the real kicker..

my prot warrior had about 547k hp... a guild prot warrior with less ilvl than me (shouldnt matter as its scaled right?) was put in at 507k hp. so there is differences all over the place. also in raiding i dont have to personally cc one mob whilst attacking another, interrupting another and kiting a blob that fucks you up at the same time. is a thing called teamwork in raids. Switching target to prevent a raid wipe is one thing. switching target to bounce half way across a map to melee interrupt and run back to your initial target that has to die first is something else. ESPECIALLY when your on a clock!

[Teebone]

Not everybody is good at doing solo content, I personally struggled with getting gold on my balance druid.

I'm a team player and have always been, so I don't see the point in excluding possible recruitments, you are merely denying yourself.

This. The only true test is raid mechanics. None of which are present in PG yet. Word has it a PG will be what unlocks the next tier of raid for everyone instead of a iLevel gear check. I am totally for that, by the way, as long as it is done intelligently.

[Inthislzon]

Didn't Blizzard mention something about PG being a requirement to enter LFR in 5.4?

People asked for it, but iirc they said that only gear will be stopping you from entering LFR

it ALL depends on class. as an enh shaman i had a hell of a time in gold due to target swapping half way across the map + being cd tied when i needed to swap to specific targets and having to auto attack for several seconds.. coupled with a cd that can only be used once every 45 seconds... now compare that to our guilds hunter.. who literally jus stood in the middle and derped as bm spec.

melee is harder than raged classes basically because you have to move and generally dont have a ranged interrupt and in some cases no cc. Also you forget that different classes in 463 gear have different strength levels.. not to mention the real kicker..

I did gold DPS on tank spec, that should tell you everything about "gold difficulty"

my prot warrior had about 547k hp... a guild prot warrior with less ilvl than me (shouldnt matter as its scaled right?) was put in at 507k hp. so there is differences all over the place. also in raiding i dont have to personally cc one mob whilst attacking another, interrupting another and kiting a blob that fucks you up at the same time. is a thing called teamwork in raids. Switching target to prevent a raid wipe is one thing. switching target to bounce half way across a map to melee interrupt and run back to your initial target that has to die first is something else. ESPECIALLY when your on a clock!

Don't make shit up ok?

You are talking about protection, so assuming tank challenge:
1 - Amber weavers are NOT present
2 - Healers are NOT present
3 - mobs chase you

And if talking about DPS challenge:
1 - Amber weavers are NOT to be interrupted, you can use the blob to stun other mobs making them take a 50% increased damage
2 - Banshees (the highest prio target) spawn ALWAYS in the middle, and the only one that moves are banana-throwing ones, and they are the FIRST target you kill, giving you ample time to finish off a banshee later (and iirc there are no waves with banshee + bananas)

[Deleted]

This. The only true test is raid mechanics. None of which are present in PG yet. Word has it a PG will be what unlocks the next tier of raid for everyone instead of a iLevel gear check. I am totally for that, by the way, as long as it is done intelligently.

i dont like that idea for several reasons. but one of my biggest is that when my shaman gets scaled down. it gets put below the hit cap! despite the fact that im above in normal content. for that to work they need to redevelop PG based on current content level as an ilvl 522 enh shaman performs a lot differently to an ilvl 463 enh shaman. and it showed up for me fairly fast

[khatsoo]

Gold isn't even difficult if you're a decent player.
The endless mode is the only challenging part.

Aside from that, I find it a cool method to filter the raiders through it, and evenmore if you didn't get to know them or raid before.
The people that /gquit would probably be people that wanted to get carried, because if they were good players they could have rushed gold in 20 minutes.

[Deleted]

People asked for it, but iirc they said that only gear will be stopping you from entering LFR



I did gold DPS on tank spec, that should tell you everything about "gold difficulty"



Don't make shit up ok?

You are talking about protection, so assuming tank challenge:
1 - Amber weavers are NOT present
2 - Healers are NOT present
3 - mobs chase you

And if talking about DPS challenge:
1 - Amber weavers are NOT to be interrupted, you can use the blob to stun other mobs making them take a 50% increased damage
2 - Banshees (the highest prio target) spawn ALWAYS in the middle, and the only one that moves are banana-throwing ones, and they are the FIRST target you kill, giving you ample time to finish off a banshee later (and iirc there are no waves with banshee + bananas)

i was on about dps gold not tank for the mobs im sure you could have figured that out using a brain. and i know how to do it. and you didnt do gold dps as tank spec so dont talk crap. But im guessing you cant prove it either way so.

[Inthislzon]

i was on about dps gold not tank for the mobs im sure you could have figured that out using a brain. and i know how to do it. and you didnt do gold dps as tank spec so dont talk crap. But im guessing you cant prove it either way so.

You failing at your spec doesn't mean everyone does.

Guess all those people getting well past wave 50 on endless are also crap?

Gold is not hard on any role provided you can play decently, you finding it hard only mean you don't play decently.

Not everyone is a world first class raider, get over it.

[Poppincaps]

I don't see anything wrong with it, although I can understand why your guildies left. If you only raid 1 night a week then you must be pretty casual, so doing a big gear shift on them like that surely make them angry.

Gold challenge mode really isn't that hard. If you practice at it, I think even a bad player could clear it in an hour.

[Deleted]

I just to say "lol" to people that say it is easy to get gold, but it is not fair to ask them to do it. lol

[Chrispotter]

Proving grounds is VERY easy to get gold in. If your raiders could not do this, they will surely not be able to handle the simplest of boss mechanics, anyone who left the guild over that was trash that needed to be disposed of anyway. OP is well within his right to require gold proving grounds of his raiders.

[Deleted]

Not everybody is good at doing solo content, I personally struggled with getting gold on my balance druid.

I'm a team player and have always been, so I don't see the point in excluding possible recruitments, you are merely denying yourself.

Team player means doing your part so you can move forward as a team. You failing on stuff actually hurts the team. The only situation where the "teamplayer" excuse works is where you are doing your job and maybe loosing some dps insted of owning recount and failing tacs.