Id laugh it off if they would require me to get it.
I prove enough in raids
Id laugh it off if they would require me to get it.
I prove enough in raids
If you run around, trying to kite the boss, you're a pretty terrible raid tank. You can't root raid bosses and if you root trash mobs, they turn around and melee the closest player. Also proving ground teaches you how tank dps is completely irrelevant, as your npc does 4-5 times your dps.
The tank one has the least to do with raiding.
I don't know why everyone's getting so upset. It's good training for the new players in his guild. They can learn their roles in a stressless environment. The veteran's should have no problem with it either.
I actually had a bit of trouble on Silver and Gold as a tank but I was blaming the NPC. I'd be low on hp and she just keeps on attacking the enemies.
First of all , awesome attitude OP. I read the whole 23 pages just to see your replies.
What most people here that opposes this idea seems to forgot the fact that even being here on a fansite forum makes you alot more engaged with the game than the most of the player population. PG is not, and cannot teach you something you so innately know by know after 4-9 years; you cant even recognize the skills its trying to teach.
In my current guild, which was causal 2 raids a week guild; we wiped on 4 weeks, 57 times on Lei Shen normal; barely getting the achivement before the patch. Do you know why we failed?
Our Raid dps was very good. Tanking was no problem (and i was tanking it with my i483 lvl monk). Healing was no issue. We wiped 57 times because some of our players (2-3 of them) were unable to stand in bouncing bolts in transisions. They just lacked the sitiuational awareness, and basic wasd skills most of you here take for granted.
PG teaches the average player how to stay aware during a stressful situation, how to prioritize dps targets; and how to recognize (the most important part) potential threats and counter them accordingly.)
The Idea is awesome. I allways loathed ilvl requirement or achivement requests in the past; but Pg is different;
And as like all Ideas; execution of this idea is what matters most, judging from OPs attitude she did approach it the right way. After all personality skills is one of the most required of a decent raid leader.
PS: OP i kinna wish i was able to join your guild, it seems like a good home for wow.
This is possibly one of the stupidest things I've ever read.
I like the idea.
A lot of the people qq'ing here are saying PG doesn't prove anything.
It still is a nice initial check. If you can't even bother to show you're not just someone who wants to get a free boost, why would the OP take you in his raid?
Gogo PG as a req for pugs now!
I asked this exact thing of my 10-man group, as well, and everyone has reached not only gold but between 14-21 Endless for their role -- with one exception, the guy who wasn't hit or expertise capped.
Is Proving Grounds an infallible tool to judge ability or readiness? No.
Is Proving Grounds an infinitely more useful gauge than itemlevel or linked achievements? Absolutely.
Awesome. Care to explain why?
Personally, I don't see it is as that bad. You haven't really raided with these guys before, so it'd be nice to see how they preform. I don't think it should be the only thing you take into consideration, but I definitely see it as a tool to predict performance.
Golds don't mean shit, not to mention that the playerbase that would be wanting to join a normal mode guild would generally not have extra time to spend on something so pointless as opposed to gearing up on timeless isle or flex.
Putting time into upgrading your character instead of seemingly pointless achievements is a far better way to progress...
*shrug* I think it's a great idea that you're requiring gold for proving grounds, but as you stated, you are a casual guild so I'm not surprised at the complaints. Casual guilds tend to get a lot of players who aren't willing to put the work into raiding/gearing/preparing for fights and therefore I am not surprised at the backlash...they probably thought that they should just be able to show up to raid however/whenever, no gear optimization no reading up on fights, anything. I bet they were completely shocked at your suggestion Whether or not they have a right to feel that way is another issue entirely, although I can completely understand why you'd like some sort of "check" beforehand in order to do some initial weeding out of players who should not be raiding.
As mentioned, proving grounds may not necessarily be the role check you'd like it to be, but really gold should be feasible for most players, in my opinion.
If players aren't interested in proving grounds, you could also ask them to screenshot their recount for dmg/healing done for an LFR encounter like Lei Shen, along with damage taken, etc, or logs from LFR (or ideally normal mode/hardmode encounters from T14 or T15). That way you're at least giving them another way to prove to you that they know what they are doing. Also, a simple armory check helps to weed out those who haven't even bothered to gear correctly.
Good luck in 5.4, OP
This thread reminds me why I stopped raiding for a while, so many people thinking they can just tell people what to do with their time, well let me tell you something, you're their leader in a virtual game, a game that they are paying every month with their own money, if they want to do Proving Grounds then they will but don't try and force people just because you're 2 ranks above them. My "casual" Guild Master suggested this exact same thing yesterday, every single person objected to it and I personally stood up to him, after years of playing together, because of it. Don't get me wrong, I think Proving Grounds are a nice feature and yes I do have the gold medal but I do not think it helps in the long run at all. It's 463 ilvl SOLO content, designed for testing and training purposes, it was not made to be a raiding requirement. Besides, you cannot compare solo content to actual raid content whatsoever, 99% of the things in Proving Grounds don't ever happen in actual raid fights, it's like comparing Mionee's solo boss kills to tanking real bosses.
I would never in a million years do proving grounds just to get a raid spot in a casual normal guild (It teaches you nothing concerning raiding). That's just ridiculous. I'm in a semi hardcore guild that raids 4 times a week (currently 10/14) and if they'd told me to get gold or no raids I'd tell them to shove it. I have no interest in even setting foot in training grounds. I got gold in all challenge modes, and I've been healing since Molten Core in vanilla. I've proven myself enough and I prove myself every raid.
OP, your demands are retarded for such a casual guild, and I'm glad you already lost raiders over it.
If it's so chalked full of absolutely fundamental concepts, and entirely useless, then everyone should have no problem getting gold and your concerns are unfounded.
Also.
"We’ve even talked about maybe there’s a way that Proving Grounds can replace item level as the gating mechanism to get you into say raid finder or similar match making content." --Greg Street
Source: http://twizzcast.com/shows/2013/8/13/ghostcrawler