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  1. #1

    Political Aftermath for Alliance (Spoilers through Siege/new Warchief)

    So, the Alliance basically won the war, albeit by invitation from a fractured Horde, but what happens next now that they've left apparently raised their sails to go back to the east and left the Horde to lick its wounds under Vol'jin?

    Some thoughts -- Tyrande can't really be all that happy that Varian didn't force some sort of treaty or restrictions on the Orcs with regard to Ashenvale. Will there be a stink over it amongst the Alliance leadership?

    The Alliance obviously has the advantage in military power and resources right now -- how rapidly and how far ought they try to permanently paint certain parts of the map blue? Particularly in the Eastern Kingdoms, where both Sylvanas and Lor'themar sent forces to Kalimdor, is the next step for the Alliance a campaign on Gilneas? on Stromgarde? Both simultaneously? They'll never have a better opportunity to, if not actually retake Lordaeron, certainly to hem Sylvanas in again.

    I am almost starting to wonder as well if Varian should remarry. These kinds of historical political subjects are maybe too high-concept for Blizzard to bother with, but a King in his position probably shouldn't enjoy the luxury of bachelorhood. Political marriages strengthen alliances, repay debts, etc. Aside from Calia-speculation, is there someone Varian ought to be getting married off to here? Jaina's involved, or it would be an obvious thought. The Widow Windrunner? Certainly strengthens the Silver Covenant greatly if that nutjob (IMO) Vereesa ever has any illusions of conquering her homeland.

    This is the kind of lore-nerd speculation thread you get out of this server mess, btw

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Some thoughts -- Tyrande can't really be all that happy that Varian didn't force some sort of treaty or restrictions on the Orcs with regard to Ashenvale. Will there be a stink over it amongst the Alliance leadership?
    That's one of the problems with the story. For Varians threat to be credible, the Alliance must have a significant and meaningful military advantage.

    If thats the case, the Alliance have no reason NOT to expect all of their lands returned and a TOTAL and complete withdrawal of Horde troops. From VJs pov, he can't afford to irritate the Alliance by refusing...that whole "honor" thing Varian spoke of..and he will actually need to bring his troops and people back home to consolidate the remaining forces he has left.

    So, a return to the borders of old and a proactive stand by VJ to reduce tensions with the Alliance should be wanted and deemed necessary by BOTH sides.

    But here is will gameplay takes over. That will give not just Ashjenvale...but Azshara, Desolace, Feralas and other zones to the Alliance. One can do that in lore, and even state the Horde will maintain some enclaves and waypoints and even have the Horde expand into South Kalimdor and Western Northrend to ease "zone count" worries. But Blizzard doesn't want to do that.

    But then...how will Tyrande take Varian simply giving her lands away. Lands her people have occupied and called their own for thousands of years. Lands her people died to reclaim. Why should he move against Sylvanas to reclaim Gilneas but refsue to buy off Gallywix with gold to reclaim Azshara or move against the other NElf lands taken by the Horde?

    Varians promised to move against Sylvanas. And in so doing shattered the peace before it began. But unless Blizzard gives the Alliance the lore based solution it requires, then the best that can be hoped for is for minor gains or a promise to reclaim the lands "later".

    When the Horde is tronger and more united and more able to resist.

    Its this sort of nonsense that makes a mockery of Blizzards claim that lore is important to them so we'll have to see how 5.5 plays out.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2013-09-21 at 02:44 PM.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    There are a dozen open threads on this issue and it's been discussed ad nauseum. PLease post your opinions in the existing ones if you feel compelled to beat this dead horse some more.

    But then...how will Tyrande take Varian simply giving her lands away. Lands her people have occupied and called their own for thousands of years. Lands her people died to reclaim.
    They're not taken over. Ashenvale was retaken in Cata. Gameplay vs lore, again.
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    Scarab Lord Chonar's Avatar
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    Nightelves develop a taste for pork products, opening up new trade avenues for lumber <--> boar meat.
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  5. #5
    Varian states that their goal now, instead of crushing the horde and losing thousands of alliance soldiers invading Thunder Bluff, is to prevent another Garrosh from rising. He than indicates that they want to clean Gilnaes of the plague and contain Sylvannas. This is implying he believe Sylvannas will be the "next Garrosh" and doesn't want her gaining to much power.
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  6. #6
    I predict that the Peace thing that Varian asked for will brake from the Alliance somehow and that will force the Horde into going to war with Alliance.
    It's WoWarcraft after all.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Illumy's Avatar
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    There won't be Peace.

    Either it's Varian retaking Gilneas or Jaina doing something stupid and going Garrosh 2.0.

  8. #8
    High Overlord DesoPL's Avatar
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    For now i can only guess... Will be a cold peace between horde and alliance. Also worth to mention, that Varian is prepare to retake Gilneas from Forseaken... It's possible, that another war will errupt if Sylvanas, will not deciede to pull back her forces from Gilneas. Otherwise also i can only guess, but it's possible that Jaina may be corrupted by N'Zoth.

    If N'Zoth before can corrupt Deathwing, why not now Jaina?

  9. #9
    i think the most likely scenario is a cold war between the forsaken and the alliance. alliance moves in to secure some ground in the north and keeping a close watch on the forsaken.

    but it's all personal for Genn Greymane considering that Sylvanas killed his only son infront of him with no remorse.

    The move against the forsaken may come with Kalimdor's Horde refusing to send any force to help Sylvanas (because they're weakened already) and instead focus on bringing both sides to the peace table, while Lorthemar sends direct aid to stop Alliance's aggressive actions.

  10. #10
    High Overlord DesoPL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    i think the most likely scenario is a cold war between the forsaken and the alliance. alliance moves in to secure some ground in the north and keeping a close watch on the forsaken.

    but it's all personal for Genn Greymane considering that Sylvanas killed his only son infront of him with no remorse.

    The move against the forsaken may come with Kalimdor's Horde refusing to send any force to help Sylvanas (because they're weakened already) and instead focus on bringing both sides to the peace table, while Lorthemar sends direct aid to stop Alliance forces from their aggressive actions.
    That scenario is possible. Since if i good remember, blood elves don't have much casualties in the war. Otherwise, between Lor'Themar and Sylvanas is something i call. "Cold love"

  11. #11
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    The move against the forsaken may come with Kalimdor's Horde refusing to send any force to help Sylvanas (because they're weakened already)...
    I reckon this is pretty much confirmed, Kosak hinted that the Alliance will go into the next expansion as a unified juggernaut while the Horde is left to pick up the pieces, re-establish their identity and just gather what they need to simply survive. Except for Sylvie, who managed to get through the whole ordeal largely unscathed.



  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by banestalker View Post
    i think the most likely scenario is a cold war between the forsaken and the alliance. alliance moves in to secure some ground in the north and keeping a close watch on the forsaken.

    but it's all personal for Genn Greymane considering that Sylvanas killed his only son infront of him with no remorse.

    The move against the forsaken may come with Kalimdor's Horde refusing to send any force to help Sylvanas (because they're weakened already) and instead focus on bringing both sides to the peace table, while Lorthemar sends direct aid to stop Alliance's aggressive actions.
    If the Horde races in Kalimdor don't help Sylvanas it sort of makes a mockery of Vol'Jin's the Horde is family concept, which Blizzard has now pushed to be the defining ideology of the Horde. The Horde's basic line seems to be, "We know if the war goes on, we will lose. But boy, you'll lose so much that it the end it wouldn't have been worth it".

    Blizzard's writers are preparing to throw the Alliance a bone. I suspect Gilneas will be retaken and Arathi, crater of a zone that it is, will be updated with a retake of Stromgarde and the entire area updated with level 90 content OR something of value.

    The Horde will probably pull back to it's defined boundaries with the Greymane Wall, the wall that divides Arathi and Hillsbrad, and Andorhal marking the extent of Horde power. Hammerfall in Arathi should be updated as well, I imagine if Blizzard does something with Arathi there will be Horde content as well.

    As for Kalimdor, gameplay trumps lore. The Horde expanded over the course of cataclysm to correct a faction imbalance. Blizzard isn't going to change it. Instead, Alliance players should hope some of their leaders are upset over Varian's decisions. Upset enough to call him out on it. Division and strife drive stories after all.

  13. #13
    More than likely we will see some treatise/ reparations from the Horde over the next few patches.

  14. #14
    High Overlord DesoPL's Avatar
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    There is also other interesing option.

    It's possible, that Sylvanas can leave the horde, and make attempt to create her own Scourge. Seems legit.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Some thoughts -- Tyrande can't really be all that happy that Varian didn't force some sort of treaty or restrictions on the Orcs with regard to Ashenvale. Will there be a stink over it amongst the Alliance leadership?
    Given that the night elves attacked via Ashenvale (if my lore is correct) I think it's safe to assume currently all horde are completely flushed out of the zone.

    I can't see Vol'Jin agreeing to attacking Ashenvale again, and as Kosak said, just because they didn't put negotiations in game doesn't mean they didn't happen.

    I'd say it's highly likely that we control Ashenvale right now and are working on Gilneas and Dustswallow Marsh.

    I think there'll be unrest in the Alliance, but in terms of war I think we're finally (thank God) back to the un easy cold war of Vanilla/TBC with occasional skirmishes by blood thirsty generals and opportunists

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesoPL View Post

    If N'Zoth before can corrupt Deathwing, why not now Jaina?
    Deathwing was the warder of the Earth, he traveled across the planet all the time into caves and dark depths, Nzoth's whispers could reach him.

    I would be very shocked if N'zoth had the power to corrupt/whisper Jaina all the way in Dalaran which we can assume is half way across the world away. If this is true then N'zoth could corrupt everybody anywhere

  16. #16
    There will not be any stink over Varian making that decision because Blizzard isn't writing the other alliance leaders as anything more than Varian's lap dogs.

  17. #17
    Fluffy Kitten Lokann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyrt View Post
    There will not be any stink over Varian making that decision because Blizzard isn't writing the other alliance leaders as anything more than Varian's lap dogs.
    Uhm, Jaina? I can't really see Genn taking it all too well either.



  18. #18
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lokann View Post
    Uhm, Jaina? I can't really see Genn taking it all too well either.
    The next directive was to "cleanse Gilneas of the plague so it can become inhabitable again". Ashenvale was secured since Cata, Gilneas was never taken but it's unsafe to live in atm, Theramore can be rebuilt and other Alliance ports in Kalimdor can fill in its role in the mean time. While Jaina seems to be a bit more belligerent, the other leaders don't have a reason to perpetuate warfare. Let the Horde deal with Sylvanas, as they seem to be hinting at, while the Alliance develops a way to neutralise the plague thus rendering the threat from Sylvanas almost non-existent. Without her blight she's by far the weakest force on Azeroth and the Alliance has already won its conflicts elsewhere in the world, even if the game won't be updated to reflect this.
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  19. #19
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    We still need the post-siege gossip text from Tyrande. I feel like she'll have the most interesting take on it, whether she agrees with Varian or not.

  20. #20
    Scarab Lord Moon Blade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    We still need the post-siege gossip text from Tyrande. I feel like she'll have the most interesting take on it, whether she agrees with Varian or not.
    I want to see this too.
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