What If series ( Decide your leaders )

[Arrashi]

Lets get this straight, you are horde and i'm alliance. We have the larger army, the more advanced weapons, the more powerful leaders. You have your "honor" wait nope after theramore your honor is pretty much gone.

I think Varian said it right. "If your Horde fails to up hold honor, as Garrosh did. WE WILL END YOU"

Nah, he said that only so alliance can feel good about themselves (at the end MoP is result of alliance whining). If they were going to "end" anyone they wouldnt need rebelion to succed and take orgrimmar before 5.1 hit.

[JudgePayne]

Arguably, for now this is true, but if the horde hadn't splintered the Alliance would be in serious trouble. It is basically a repeat of the second war, the horde collapsed because of infighting, with the difference that it is not disbanded this time. Otherwise the factions were pretty even.

But the same could be said that if theramore was not destoryed the alliance would be stronger still etc etc.
The fact is that currently in the game the horde are hovering around 40% of there original military strength whereas the alliance are at 80%(ish).

Before people give out the numbers mentioned above come from the following original horde split with majority of the orcs backing garrosh(multiple books and in game events suggest the same), the orcs made up the bulk of the horde so garrosh had maybe 30% of the horde join him with the remainder divided. Numerous trolls were killed by Kor'Kron. After the war if both sides take similar casualties the horde is at 40%-45% at best.

The alliance only lost theramore (which was a big hit about 15% of the human forces), after which there has been no major amounts of deaths. During the siege the alliance ships take a pounding assaulting the bay but by letting the horde go first we minimised the damage we took.

[Combatbutler]

But the same could be said that if theramore was not destoryed the alliance would be stronger still etc etc.
The fact is that currently in the game the horde are hovering around 40% of there original military strength whereas the alliance are at 80%(ish).

Before people give out the numbers mentioned above come from the following original horde split with majority of the orcs backing garrosh(multiple books and in game events suggest the same), the orcs made up the bulk of the horde so garrosh had maybe 30% of the horde join him with the remainder divided. Numerous trolls were killed by Kor'Kron. After the war if both sides take similar casualties the horde is at 40%-45% at best.

The alliance only lost theramore (which was a big hit about 15% of the human forces), after which there has been no major amounts of deaths. During the siege the alliance ships take a pounding assaulting the bay but by letting the horde go first we minimised the damage we took.

Which is why I said it is true for now .The Alliance lost a good chunk of their forces during all the conflicts during garrosh's reign as well, they are stronger as the horde right now, but it doesn't change the fact that the losses were severe regardless and after a few years of rebuilding they will most likely be on equal ground once more.

[Vhalerius]

No he wouldn't. He would've been crushed by the Alliance either way. And Orcs a master race? Those inferior buffoons aren't worthy of running a dishwasher, much more a planet.

a bigger, fouler filthier toilet than draenor. ya I can imagine it. Blizz imagined it too, not long after Garrosh's victory in the blank scroll story Azeroth was annihilated by Nzoth and the Legion in a combined assault
I'd say an orc unable to ogar when he cant lok'tar is the biggest coward of them all. And that's a Hellscream for you.

Lets get this straight, you are horde and i'm alliance. We have the larger army, the more advanced weapons, the more powerful leaders. You have your "honor" wait nope after theramore your honor is pretty much gone.

I think Varian said it right. "If your Horde fails to up hold honor, as Garrosh did. WE WILL END YOU"

All I see are blue coated wastrels who's minds have become to distorted by their own leader's propaganda, they can't see a true hero when he stands right in-front of them and tries to cleave their impure head from their not-green and/or brown (or just Orcish in general) shoulders.
Come back Based Garrosh, we need you.

[JudgePayne]

All I see are blue coated wastrels who's minds have become to distorted by their own leader's propaganda, they can't see a true hero when he stands right in-front of them and tries to cleave their impure head from their not-green shoulders.
Come back Based Garrosh, we need you.

Lies our heros also have green shoulders "Malfurion". Your brown hero should have stayed in outland acting all emo. The hellscream legacy is that of idiotic children who play with forces far above their limited knowledge and ultimately end up doing more damage to their own people then anyone else.

- - - Updated - - -

Which is why I said it is true for now .The Alliance lost a good chunk of their forces during all the conflicts during garrosh's reign as well, they are stronger as the horde right now, but it doesn't change the fact that the losses were severe regardless and after a few years of rebuilding they will most likely be on equal ground once more.

I don't know about a good chunck, theramore was a hit yes but apart from that lets count 1) The alliance won the inital fight in pandaria with the horde airship being knocked out of the sky. 2) The blood elves lost a sizable portion of their army in the purge of dalaran while the alliance gained dalaran and all the previously neutral kirin tor. 3) As mentioned above the alliance forces lost very little in the run up to siege whereas the horde suffered major damage with the troll attacks etc.

[Vhalerius]

Lies our heros also have green shoulders "Malfurion". Your brown hero should have stayed in outland acting all emo. The hellscream legacy is that of idiotic children who play with forces far above their limited knowledge and ultimately end up doing more damage to their own people then anyone else.

Malfurion is about as much of a hero as every other Alliance leader that's been irrelevant and somewhere else for the last every expansion ever.
The Hellscream legacy is that of being Based, Grom was based, and Garrosh was, impossibly, more based.
Garrosh will have his day yet, whether that day comes at the cost of the Alliance cowards, at the cost of the Horde cowards, some other means, or what I suspect, by ascending to a higher plane and becoming the swag elemental.
Also why are you hating on brown Orcs are you racist?

[Combatbutler]

I don't know about a good chunck, theramore was a hit yes but apart from that lets count 1) The alliance won the inital fight in pandaria with the horde airship being knocked out of the sky. 2) The blood elves lost a sizable portion of their army in the purge of dalaran while the alliance gained dalaran and all the previously neutral kirin tor. 3) As mentioned above the alliance forces lost very little in the run up to siege whereas the horde suffered major damage with the troll attacks etc.

The seventh legion lost a good chunk of their forces at Theramore, and in Gilneas, the fleet send by Varian to attack Orgrimmar shortly afterwards was heavily damaged,the kingdom of Gilneas lies in ruins, the stormpikes are all but wiped out, the night elves suffered heavy losses against orcish invaders, the Alliance has almost no presence left in northern Lordaeron, the purge of Dalaran actually strengthened the blood elves,they did not loose a single soldier, they gained combatants, since most of the sunreavers considered themselves neutral and did not fight for the horde, but after the purge many of those that got away do, hence the Sunreaver onslaught is created. Just prior to the arrival in Pandaria the horde fleets won major victories at the coasts of Tanaris and tol barad. The Alliance is without a doubt stronger right now, but their losses were great regardless and it will take time to recuperate, for both sides.

If the Alliance would continue their onslaught they would win, though I would argue it would be a pyrrhic victory, since they have not enough manpower to control the captured territory.

[JudgePayne]

The seventh legion lost a good chunk of their forces at Theramore, and in Gilneas, the fleet send by Varian to attack Orgrimmar shortly afterwards was heavily damaged,the kingdom of Gilneas lies in ruins, the stormpikes are all but wiped out, the night elves suffered heavy losses against orcish invaders, the Alliance has almost no presence left in northern Lordaeron, the purge of Dalaran actually strengthened the blood elves,they did not loose a single soldier, they gained combatants, since most of the sunreavers considered themselves neutral and did not fight for the horde, but after the purge many of those that got away do, hence the Sunreaver onslaught is created. Just prior to the arrival in Pandaria the horde fleets won major victories at the coasts of Tanaris and tol barad. The Alliance is without a doubt stronger right now, but their losses were great regardless and it will take time to recuperate, for both sides.

If the Alliance would continue their onslaught they would win, though I would argue it would be a pyrrhic victory, since they have not enough manpower to control the captured territory.

They do if they kill off the occupants of said land, think of it as the N.Elves reclaiming their lost land. Technically Kalimdor is pretty much all night elf land anyway. After the seperation of the continents the night elves settled and setup points all over Kalimdor. (Side note trolls do have one base in Tanaris also). Their is evidence of night elf bases all over kalimdor from moonglade to Silithus.

[Earthstar]

Man, I don't get why people want to see Saurfang as a leader.. He's a soldier! Yes, he was high ranked and yes he has a reasonable head on his shoulders and is honorable, but he's still a soldier. He's also suffering from some PTSD and issues from what happened in the past. Also, he is an old orc, as been stated. He is a great character, and a great warrior, but a great leader he would not make.

(Game of thrones spoiler) You know who else was a reasonable, high ranked soldier that tried to be a leader? Ned stark! Look how that turned out for him.

[Combatbutler]

They do if they kill off the occupants of said land, think of it as the N.Elves reclaiming their lost land. Technically Kalimdor is pretty much all night elf land anyway. After the seperation of the continents the night elves settled and setup points all over Kalimdor. (Side note trolls do have one base in Tanaris also). Their is evidence of night elf bases all over kalimdor from moonglade to Silithus.

Unlikely, warcraft is a world where enough people with pitchforks can be a threat to entire armies,not to mention they need constant supplies and if the people actually realize the alliance is butchering them all, they will most likely unleash everything in their power to stop them. Take the blood elves for example I wouldn't put it past them to implode their sunwell out of spite to cause a mini sundering, orcs clawing at humans strangling as many to death with their bare hands as possible, trolls and tauren waging guerilla warfare,goblins blowing themselves up in the ranks of the enemy, rigging almost everything, the forsaken blighting their lands to oblivion before they are taken out making it uninhabitable for decades, all this assuming no neutral organization steps in at one time saying enough is enough, you had your fun but one step further and you will deal with us.

[Golden Yak]

I still want Sylvanas to stay in charge of the Forsaken, but she needs a bigger posse of elite henchmen to do her bidding.

Koltira - That guy's gotta have been tortured into obedience by now. Get him out in the field cutting off heads already. The bearer of Apollyon needs blood.

Cromush - This orc was Garrosh's watchdog overseeing Sylvanas and the Forsaken. He's gotta be dead by now, but he'd make a great undead.

Professor Putricide - He had his head cut off for betraying the Alliance/Horde union at the Wrathgate, but whatever - death ain't nothing but a thang to the undead. Sylvanas should stitch his head back on to a new body and have him work for her - his knowledge is too useful to throw away. 'course, he'll need watching to make sure he doesn't have any ideas about throwing in with the Legion again...

[Primaliron]

They do if they kill off the occupants of said land, think of it as the N.Elves reclaiming their lost land. Technically Kalimdor is pretty much all night elf land anyway. After the seperation of the continents the night elves settled and setup points all over Kalimdor. (Side note trolls do have one base in Tanaris also). Their is evidence of night elf bases all over kalimdor from moonglade to Silithus.

A what if argument about the Night Elves commiting genocide is self-defeating as it would never occur. They also didn't lose southern Kalimdor, they left. Most of the ruins to the south are cities they abandoned intentionally, and/or were inhabited by exiled Highbourne. They were content for 10,000 years to let the Tauren chill out to the south, and they don't seem to care much about the centaur or quillboar being there either.

All arguments of previous occupancy are also invalid unless you're a troll since they once ruled almost every territory before everyone else showed up/evolved. They are the only ones making that claim for a reason.

[JudgePayne]

A what if argument about the Night Elves commiting genocide is self-defeating as it would never occur. They also didn't lose southern Kalimdor, they left. Most of the ruins to the south are cities they abandoned intentionally, and/or were inhabited by exiled Highbourne. They were content for 10,000 years to let the Tauren chill out to the south, and they don't seem to care much about the centaur or quillboar being there either.

All arguments of previous occupancy are also invalid unless you're a troll since they once ruled almost every territory before everyone else showed up/evolved. They are the only ones making that claim for a reason.

They left ? , Ferlas there is a veyr big night elf base located there, Silithus has a very big night elf base there, Desolace, Stonetalon, Azshara,AshenVale, Felwood, Wintersping,Hyjal, darkshore,moonglade. The majority of these locations still have active night elf forces stationed there.

Though tribes and clans of Trolls may have been in existence almost as long as they have, the Darkspear Trolls playable in the game have not been around nearly as long, thus, making the night elves the second-most ancient race playable in the game (the most ancient being the Draenei) and the first to appear on Azeroth. Wowwiki Nightelf

Night elves are the second oldest most playable race only behind the Draenei, The trolls are the third not first.

Sorry if my spelling is bad, I am typing on my mobile, on a train.

[Verdugo]

Night elves are the second oldest most playable race only behind the Draenei, The trolls are the third not first.

Sorry if my spelling is bad, I am typing on my mobile, on a train.

You missed the part where they were talking about darkspear trolls as not that old.

[Combatbutler]

Night elves are the second oldest most playable race only behind the Draenei, The trolls are the third not first.

Sorry if my spelling is bad, I am typing on my mobile, on a train.

Woah woah woah, trolls are older than night elves, after all night elves are trolls that mutated because they were exposed to the well of eternity.

[JudgePayne]

Woah woah woah, trolls are older than night elves, after all night elves are trolls that mutated because they were exposed to the well of eternity.

I always assumed the same but from both wowpedia and wowwiki it seems history has changed.

As mentioned above it now says

Though tribes and clans of Trolls have been in existence almost as long as they have, the Darkspear Trolls playable in the game have not been around nearly as long, thus, making the night elves the second-most ancient race playable in the game (the most ancient being the Draenei) and the first to appear on Azeroth. Wowwiki Nightelf

It says that trolls and night elves have been in existence for the same amount of time.

[Combatbutler]

I always assumed the same but from both wowpedia and wowwiki it seems history has changed.

As mentioned above it now says



It says that trolls and night elves have been in existence for the same amount of time.

No the darkspear tribe, splintered from the Zandalari, like all other tribes, meaning the time they consider themselves darkspear is not as long, but the trolls as a race predate the night elves, according to Freya and Cenarius they evolved from dark trolls.

[JudgePayne]

No the darkspear tribe, splintered from the Zandalari, like all other tribes, meaning the time they consider themselves darkspear is not as long, but the trolls as a race predate the night elves, according to Freya and Cenarius they evolved from dark trolls.

Actually this topic is has not been offically stated yet, I draw your attention to the following

There is some controversy that the separate origin of elves and trolls may be intertwined, but each race has their own story according to their own history.

According to their own history, the night elves were the first race to "awaken" in Azeroth,then a nocturnal tribe of humanoids called the Kaldorei settled near the Well of Eternity between ten and fourteen thousand years ago. But the race itself the Kaldorei is was around for thousands of years before this.

The trolls' history is as long as that of the elves' (reaching back at least 16,000 years).Thousands and thousands of years ago, the jungles and forests of Kalimdor were ruled by tribes of trolls, wandering packs of beast-men hunting savage sabercats and kodo beasts and offering up their blood in dark rituals. Petrified remains of troll encampments from these days are occasionally turned up during explorations by the Explorers guild. These trolls had nothing that would qualify as even the smallest of towns

According to Blizzard's troll compendium, it's up in the air as to if night elves are related to trolls or not, as there is simply not enough evidence to prove either way.

The kaldorei; (from Darnassian or Thalassian: Kal - star and Dorei - children), which means "children of the stars" in their main tongue of Darnassian, were a race of nocturnal, feral nomadic humanoids that once lived in the jungles of the former continent of Kalimdor, at the time the sole continent of Azeroth. They were considered the greatest tribe in the land (Wowwiki Race Origins)(Numerous books and blizzard references)

So as it seems the trolls and the Kaldorei where the two aplha races with the Kaldori being the greater tribe. The night elves as we know them today evolved to use magic and advance their intellect by settling near the well.

[Combatbutler]

Actually this topic is has not been offically stated yet, I draw your attention to the following


So as it seems the trolls and the Kaldorei where the two aplha races with the Kaldori being the greater tribe. The night elves as we know them today evolved to use magic and advance their intellect by settling near the well.

The night elves are descendants of trolls, blizz confirmed it a long time ago

Q: Are night elves related to trolls in some way?
A: See issue #5 of the World of Warcraft Official Magazine!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2721372142
http://wowpedia.org/World_of_Warcraf...lume_2_Issue_1
http://wowpedia.org/Dark_Troll

At the beginning of the world, now known as Azeroth, the god-like titans created the Well of Eternity, source of all magic on the planet. In time, a tribe of dark trolls came to settle near the translucent waters of the well. These feral, nomadic humanoids built crude homes on the shore of the well, and named themselves Kaldorei, which meant "children of the stars" in their native tongue. The trolls believed that their moon goddess, Elune, slept within the Well’s shimmering depths during the daylight hours. Exposed to the potent power of the well, the trolls began to evolve, eventually becoming the first night elves.

[JudgePayne]

The night elves are descendants of trolls, blizz confirmed it a long time ago

Q: Are night elves related to trolls in some way?
A: See issue #5 of the World of Warcraft Official Magazine!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2721372142
http://wowpedia.org/World_of_Warcraf...lume_2_Issue_1
http://wowpedia.org/Dark_Troll

At the beginning of the world, now known as Azeroth, the god-like titans created the Well of Eternity, source of all magic on the planet. In time, a tribe of dark trolls came to settle near the translucent waters of the well. These feral, nomadic humanoids built crude homes on the shore of the well, and named themselves Kaldorei, which meant "children of the stars" in their native tongue. The trolls believed that their moon goddess, Elune, slept within the Well’s shimmering depths during the daylight hours. Exposed to the potent power of the well, the trolls began to evolve, eventually becoming the first night elves.

Point taken, As I said I taught the trolls were around first but when reading it seemed the information was off.

Anyway I think this topic hsa gone astray (as so many lore topics have a tendency to do).

I see a few people are in favour of putting thrall back in charge of the orcs, but cumon guys do you really want the guy who put Garrosh in power being your racial leader. Saurfang to me would be a much better choice and he fills the void Garrosh left for a big orc with an axe.