-Retribution, the path of the protector or mender brought to it's natural conclusion; destroying evil before the weak need to be shielded from it, and before it can wound the innocent.
Fix My DPS | Fix My Heals | Fix My Tanking |
WoW Level Scaling Feature
Might be true for your LFR heroes... But Heroic raiders are way more skilled than in Vanilla/TBC. Don't compare Apples to Peaches when looking at player skill. There were many retards that were at the same level as the current "LFR Heroes". If you straight up compare TBC top raiding guilds(Ones that entered a raid during the patch when it was released and killed a few bosses) to current Normal/1-2 boss Heroic mode guilds, it's a whole another world.
Especially since we've moved away from 1-2-3 rotations(BM Hunter and Warlocks had 1 ability spam rotation even) and now you have to do much more complex and thoughtful rotations WHILE making sure you execute a strategy for a boss. Do you even realize how easy bosses would be if I logged on my Hunter and literally spammed Cobra shot until the boss died? Would require no skill, no thought, I could focus on the boss fight way way way more.
I really DON'T understand how can so many people bring this up as an argument about the supposed simplicity of vanilla / BC bosses.
You have to consider the difficulty of a boss within the game features of that time: if one - say - could not get hit capped or classes had less tools, it doesn't make vanilla/BC raids any easier just on the thought that it would be easier if there was better itemization. There wasn't. That was the gear and those were the classes. Bosses were tuned for those classes and gear, people were wearing that gear and playing those classes. So that was the actual difficulty.
It's really depressing that one can make such enormously flawed arguments. Every thread about difficulty comparison is full of this very same crap.
I didn't raid or even play World of Warcraft for 6 years straight, and neither did my guild. We're a bunch of 40 year old farts who entered MOP with nothing but whatever raiding skills we picked up in Classic.
We killed most normal mode bosses in 1-3 tries and as far as Tier 14 goes, we didn't even use boss mods for the normal modes. From our perspective, most normal modes are at best Molten Core level of difficulty, in spite of their numerous mechanics. The mechanics are just incredibly basic and incredibly forgiving on normal mode.
As far as Heroic modes goes, most of those we did were very easy to us and went down in a single raid night or less. Some even went down in 5 tries or less (most of MSV HC). Only a handful of bosses seem to be challenging and even fewer seem to be genuinely hard.
Raiding today seems to be about as hard as it was back in the day. The only thing that has changed is how the challenges are presented. Today is more fun. The mechanics add fun. Bugfree encounters are fun.
Last edited by Akylios; 2013-10-09 at 01:42 AM.
Most ppl seem to refer to 25 man history but I like to point out that Paragon spent close to 640 tries to get Garrosh HC. He is by far the hardest boss so far according to the amount of wipes. Its a major dpscheck and to meet those requirements they went with 1 healer and perfected it. They will probably be the only guild ever along with china that kills it with 1 healer, this shows how well they play.( In b4 ppl outgear it and go 1 man heal derp. )
In this very Moment we have spent more tries on Garrosh HC than we did to kill Lei Shen HC and afaik we havent killed Garrosh Yet. With some more Ilvl upgrades he is dead within days from now tho I hope.
People shouldn't confuse gearchecks/encounters being overtuned with actual difficult mechanics.
No, raiders are no more skilled today than ever. The game has changed and, thus, strategies and rotations change. But, by and large, the same predictable difficulty levels are still around today like they were in Vanilla.
Just because you can go back and solo these bosses now doesn't mean they were easy at the time. I assure you, as someone who raided during every single expansion and vanilla, the bosses have always been increasingly more difficult each tier in a predictable manner. This still exists today.
Whoever above was mocking M'uru's difficulty has absolutely no clue what they're talking about. Think of it like inflation. What is $5 today was more like $25 30 years ago. Same with WoW expansion difficulty level.
People are quit to write-off / discount M'uru as a simple "overtuned" and "easy as shit mechanics" fight.
Odds are they simply weren't there for 1.0 and 1.1 progression.
Still one of the most glorious fights to this day, requiring perfect execution and finding every last crumb of DPS to get through. Players that only killed it after the sweeping HP nerfs (version 1.2) were cheated out of a truly demanding fight (rare for Vanilla / BC era) as the nerf trivialized the fight (and really, the entire instance).
They didn't call it the Guild Destroyer for nothing...probably caused the break up of more raiding guilds than any other boss to date.
Absolutely true. As far as I remember second place goes to Ka'el ThasThey didn't call it the Guild Destroyer for nothing...probably caused the break up of more raiding guilds than any other boss to date.
Exactly! Hard doesn’t mean which boss has the most creative mechanics. I’m just going to put it out there that mechanics are gimmicky; talented players figure them out really quickly and overcome them. That’s what sets the leading guilds apart from the average. Tuning is the real difference: it can make even the simplest fight test the best of players.
M’uru wasn’t even the most creative boss in Sunwell in terms of mechanics, but he single handidly destroyed more progression guilds than any other boss in WoW history. Why? Because the tuning was absolutely brutal and left no room for mistakes, lag or even indecision.
One of the guilds which got US top 10 kills on Kalecgos and Brutallis and US top 20 on Felmyst took almost two months to kill M’uru.
Anyone who scoffs at how hard M’uru actually was is either from the original 5 ultra-elite guilds who downed the 1.0 version, from Drow, who had that amazing AoE strat that everyone else tried but couldn’t replicate, or simply didn’t raid Sunwell pre-3.0. Everyone else struggled with him, and most struggled for weeks and weeks.
Last edited by spoon77; 2013-10-10 at 02:22 AM.
Kil'Jaeden was harder than M'uru before KJ aggro got hotfixed and more likely to cause trouble on farm.
People overrate the word difficult. They think fights that take a long time all belong in that category. Some fights just require a gear check. Hard is Yogg 0 where even people with gear couldn't get it down. It had many different ridiculous abilities. Skill level has increased too.
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I agree with everything you just said.
Everybody notes that player skill has increased yet I do not believe that at all. I believe that playing your class with more efficiency has simply become easier, I know for a fact that I haven't drastically changed my playing style since BC, which leads me to believe that most people that have played since vanilla haven;t changed their playing styles tremendously either. This leads into my thinking of skill remaining the same, the raids have become easier simply because each class has so many tools now. The mechanics are more complex to make up for the abilities given to each class with each expansion. The difficulty is not increasing, vanilla was simply harder because gear hurdle was there to float bad players, without the gear you didn't have enough decent players to complete a encounter. You also had to coordinate many more people, which wasn't easy at all (early days seem comparable to a bad LFR).
Name of your guild? Sounds like a fraud.
http://web.archive.org/web/200809130...utsu.com/world
Sunwell Plateau
3.47%
Kalecgos
3.40%
Brutallus
2.25%
Felmyst
1.54%
Eredar Twins
1.20%
M'uru
0.50%
Kil'jaeden
0.21%
Surely more than 50% of the guild that wiped (and than killed) 300 times on muru would have invested the time for 40 KJ pulls in a few months.
Last edited by Dangg; 2013-10-11 at 12:45 AM.
One thing to take into account with those numbers are repeat M'uru kills. For example, the only other guild on our server that killed M'uru didn't kill KJ -- they had problems with repeat kills in the subsequent weeks after the first kill, killing him only two further times. People quit and that guild stopped progression until the massive nerfs in 3.0. In a month they probably only spent three or four nights on KJ in total.
That was why he was such a guild killer -- aside from being ultra-tightly tuned the fight was incredibly monotonous, so people burned out on him.