Question about monk tanks and realistic uptimes, for Brewmasters.

[theostrichsays]

What is the realistic uptimes for Brewmasters, I ask in the sense of not expecting perfection out of a raider in our group, but they are taking massive damage the last two raids and trying to pinpoint why. I didn't think to run logs since one was ToT and the other was a mount run through MSV. I did think to restart Skada right as Will of the Emp, bosses came out and here is the following uptimes:
Elusive Brew 95 percent
Shuffle 52 percent
Guard 44 percent
Then Stone Guard
Elusive Brew 68 percent
Shuffle 48 percent
Guard 42 percent

I know that's off MSV and some might say oh who cares, but from my recollection the Stone Guard fight was right on par with their ToT numbers previously. Then while tanking bats, all their numbers plummeted shuffle/guard uptime being in the low thirties mid twenties.
Like I said, not asking for what that the uber pro uptimes are rather what a normal player can realistically expect.
I also had Elegon 90 percent of the time, only falling off long enough to drag and add out and drop stacks then right back in, yet they took 6.4 millin damage to my 4.3 million damage taken (self heals were no where near mine either) and then Will they took 11.1 million and I took 3.2 million damage and they were only hit by one Devasting Combo swing.
Thank you ahead of time for anyone who takes the time to give me a few numbers they should aim for.
Oh lastly for whatever it helps their damage by attacks is:
Will - 146 attacks - 33 black out kicks - 19 keg smash - 26 tiger palm - 19 swift reflexs - 37 jabs - 5 expel harms.

[herpecin]

having shuffle at 95%+ has been the goal of monk tanks since MoP launched, so it is completely doable in any gear level.

guard isnt something you want up all the time, its best used to avoid big spikes.

EB can be weird, there is one buff for the stacks that let you use it, and another for the actual buff. im guessing that if he has 52% uptime on shuffle, than the 95% is the former.

[heheMongot]

A Brewmaster without Shuffle up dies as quickly as a Warrior/Paladin without a shield. It is piss-easy to keep Shuffle up, so if this person can't handle that I can't imagine how it can remember breathing. :P

[theostrichsays]

I appreciate the answers, I am assuming that the Shuffle uptime is the vast majority of the issue.

[Puri]

He manages to have elusive brew up at 95%? I assume you are tracking the brew buff, and not the usage.

And as others already have pointed out, having 95%+ uptime on shuffle really is no rocket science anymore since the duration stacks. If he really has problems keeping that up, let the other tank start first.

[theostrichsays]

I didn't log it, just the numbers off the skada report and it didn't separate them, simply gave a percentage uptime buff on it. So, I am going to go with what the more experienced folks here said and it was probably tracking the buff. I will make sure to log tomorrow and if he is spiking all over the place after I talk to him about the shuffle uptime, I will post a link to the logs. Once again thank you to those who gave responses.

[Pazx]

He manages to have elusive brew up at 95%? I assume you are tracking the brew buff, and not the usage.

And as others already have pointed out, having 95%+ uptime on shuffle really is no rocket science anymore since the duration stacks. If he really has problems keeping that up, let the other tank start first.

i don't remember the fights i had it up on but EB can be kept up that much easily

[Solial]

i don't remember the fights i had it up on but EB can be kept up that much easily

It's nearly impossible to keep Elusive brew up 95% of the time. Someone with math can say much crit this would require.

As for the rest: Stagger uptime should be 99.9%. Will is a small exception because there really it's anything to attack constantly until the bosses are out.
44% up time on guard means he probably has it glyphed, don't do that on physical damage fights.

[ice216]

The elusive brew is gonna be skewed because the actual dodge buff and the stacks(before you use them) have the same name and skada cant tell the difference between then, so those are useless info here, would need real logs to help with that. Aside from that shuffle under 75% is not acceptable and even 75% is really low

[Deleted]

44% up time on guard means he probably has it glyphed, don't do that on physical damage fights.

On a fight where you don't need to absorb a big timed hit the glyph is actually great (I have it glyphed more than not in SoO tbh). Any time you take damage and drop below EH trigger the 30% extra heal helps a lot, you're almost talking full heal if EH crits with high vengeance.

[Kroni]

Hey,

i just took a realistic sample of my last protectors HC fight with no perfect play, 558 ilvl.

These 2 should be up nearly 100% if you have always something to attack.
Shuffle 99.3 % 100%
Tiger Power 96.9 % 100%

The 1. is the brew buff itselt, the second one is the activation, here you can see my sloppy play
Elusive Brew 93.4 % irrelevant
Elusive Brew 23.0 % 30-70% depending on gear/crit, my uptime is poor, mostly its ~50%

Guard 67.8 % if you see such a high uptime on guard its always the raid guards through the statue, here you see if he puts his statue down.
Guard 1.6 % monk guards on itself, mostly reactive you can ignore the uptime but he should use it sometimes.

Another thing you can check is how often he uses Keg Smash, which is very important... For Example on my Log

Fight: 9:25 = 565 sec
114 Energy from KS \ 2 = 57 Keg Smash's

565 / 8 = 70 possible Keg Smash's, poor on my part

If you want to go farther, you can check if he used his defensive CDs if he is dying.

Example Log:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=3364&e=3929

Cheers.

[Hottie4Hire]

To expand on Guard:

Uptime is literally meaningless. It's a shield and damage will remove it but it can still only be used once every 30 seconds. So for me, when I use it it's only up for a few seconds meaning I'd have a 10% uptime even if I used it on cooldown (which I don't and very rarely should someone do this - they should use it when they're going to take larger bursts of damage).

Honestly, I'd say you'd want to look at number of uses (do they use it too little?) and then look for a low uptime as that means they're using it at the right time (this is a generalization - it won't always work and it shouldn't be a goal but it might help to identify potential problems).

[Delnar]

The main problem here is as anyone else said: the shuffle uptime.

Little Math to that special point:
Assumption: low mastery build (~12% mastery buffed)

with shuffle: 48% direct dmg, 52% Staggered
without shuffle: 68% direct dmg, 32% staggered

percentual difference in direct dmg: 68/48 ~= 1.41
that means re is taking 40% more direct dmg when its not up. (thats mostly the problem for heals)

In addition to that he loses 20% parry.
my (and assumes theres values are representative) hard avoid values are 18,5% dodge, 8%parry => 26,5% hard avoid / 46,5% with shuffle up.
that means ~37% more damage taken in average.

1.41 x 1.37 ~= 1.93

Therefore if shuffle is NOT kept up he takes about the double direct dmg to when it is up.

Just a little food for your thought on that point and how much it affects the damage taken.

greets